Navigating Loss and Resilience: Dr. Natasha Davison's Journey

October is pregnancy and infant loss awareness month. 

CONTENT NOTE:

On today’s episode I am joined by Dr Natasha Davison who speaks about twin-to-twin transfusion syndrome and pregnancy loss which I know can be distressing.

Here are some relevant links if you need resources or support around pregnancy loss:

https://www.pregnancylossaustralia.org.au/

https://www.sands.org.au/

https://www.miraclebabies.org.au/content/loss-of-your-twin-or-triplet-baby/gjsr3c

https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/

https://www.bearsofhope.org.au/

Crisis lines (24 hour support):

LIFELINE

​13 11 14
 www.lifeline.org.au

BEYOND BLUE
1300 22 4636
www.beyondblue.org.au

In this poignant episode, Dr. Natasha Davison, a psychologist and high performance coach, opens up about her deeply personal journey through pregnancy, loss, and resilience. Dr. Davison's story is one of unexpected twists, from the surprise of a twin pregnancy after initially believing she'd only conceived one child, to the devastating diagnosis of Twin to Twin Transfusion Syndrome (TTTS).

As she recounts the emotional rollercoaster of hope and heartbreak, Dr. Davison reflects on the strength required to navigate such challenging circumstances. The vivid account of her in utero procedure and subsequent complications is a testament to the courage and tenacity she embodied during this trying period.

Tragically, on May 1st a decade ago, Dr. Davison experienced the unimaginable loss of both twins. Her candid narrative touches on the profound impact of this event and the complex grief that followed.

However, this episode is not solely about loss, but also about resilience. Dr. Davison shares the transformational process she underwent in the aftermath, ultimately leading her to return to her work as a psychologist and high performance coach. Her unique perspective, drawn from personal experience, now serves as a beacon of hope for others facing adversity.

Join us in this deeply moving conversation as Dr. Davison honors the memory of her twin boys and imparts invaluable wisdom on finding strength in the face of heartbreak. Her journey is a testament to the human capacity for resilience, offering solace and inspiration to all who listen.

Thanks for listening! If you are a soon-to-be or current parent of multiples, be sure to head over to my website http://www.fiercekindmama.com to get my FREE resources designed specifically for you!

Be sure to follow me on Instagram and Facebook too.

Credits:
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/aylex/with-you
License code: YLMJTQCPKRANEOVB

Transcript

*Please note that due to an impromptu announcement at the beginning of the episode, the time stamps in this transcript start when the music commences and do not include the announcement.

Announcement

Hi there, if you are a soon-to-be or current mother of multiples who is struggling somewhat with the demands of parenting, then I want you to listen very carefully for the next 30 seconds or so. Because before we dive into today’s episode, I have a very special announcement that I would love to share with you. The doors to the Be Fierce Be Kind Mama Collective have officially opened!

And this is the program that I wish I had access to in those early years of parenting multiples. 

The Be Fierce Be Kind Mama Collective is an online, group experience designed to give you all the tools and knowledge so that you are emotionally prepared for whatever parenting challenges you might be facing now or in the future. 

This program is for you if you want to feel calm, confident and in control of your parenting journey; if you want to learn more about and be supported in adopting empowered mothering practices; if you want to enjoy the season of life you are in and be part of a community of mothers who truly understand the struggles of raising multiples. 

If this sounds intriguing to you, then head on over to our website www.fiercekindmama.com where you will find all the details.

The program starts the week of the 23rd of October so be sure to check it out now before the doors close. I can’t wait to see you there!

00:00:06 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Welcome to the Fierce Kind Mama of Multiples podcast. This podcast is for anyone raising multiples, twins, triplets or more. I speak to inspiring parents of multiples who have healed from unexpected pregnancies and birthing experiences and who candidly share the highs and lows raising multiples.

00:00:27 Dr Cristina Cavezza

I also speak to the.

00:00:28 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Professionals that work with multiple birth families.

00:00:31 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Together we cover the practicalities of raising more than one baby at a time, as well as enhancing the emotional well being of caregivers and children alike. Come join us as we laugh, cry, and share our personal and professional wisdom on all things multiples. I'm your host, Dr Cristina Cavezza

00:00:51 Dr Cristina Cavezza

And I am a Fierce Kind Mama of Multiples.

00:00:59 Dr Cristina Cavezza

On today's episode, I'm joined by Dr Natasha Davison. I asked Natasha to be on the podcast today because October is pregnancy and infant Loss Awareness Month. During the episode, Natasha shares her personal experience of the.

00:01:11 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Still birth of.

00:01:12 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Her twins. I know that this topic may be distressing to some listeners. I encourage you to seek support if you find the discussion.

00:01:20 Dr Cristina Cavezza

difficult. There are some resources outlined in the podcast show notes, so please be sure to check those out. Before I formally introduce Natasha, I want to briefly share our personal connection. Natasha and I met when I first

00:01:32 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Moved to Australia, we.

00:01:33 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Were both completing a doctorate in psychology and Natasha generously offered her time and took me to see some local attractions.

00:01:40 Dr Cristina Cavezza

I remember her driving me to Healesville sanctuary and I was completely enamoured by the Tasmanian devils.

00:01:46 Dr Cristina Cavezza

In true Aussie fashion, Natasha joked about all the photos I was taking of the Tasmanian devils and even though it was all those years ago, I still remember her generosity and her real desire to be of service to others.

00:02:02 Dr Cristina Cavezza

With the business of life after the degree, we had lost contact for a few years, but after I had my twin boys, I was about to move to a new suburb where I didn't know anyone, and I remembered that Natasha lived nearby, so I still had her number and I reached out to her. 

00:02:17 Dr Cristina Cavezza

She generously offered to meet with me for coffee, and before that encounter I had no idea that a few years prior to my boys being born, she had also had a twin pregnancy. I'll let her share the details of what happened. For now, I'll tell you a bit about Natasha professionally.

00:02:36 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Natasha works with elite athletes and people working in high performance industries to overcome mental blocks that stop them from performing at their ultimate best. Natasha is a registered health psychologist with over 15 years experience.

00:02:52 Dr Cristina Cavezza

She's a high performance Ultimate Coach, a practising EMDR therapist, and a certified NLP and hypnosis, master practitioner and trainer. She is also the author of a #1 bestseller book on Amazon called Real Talk Real Change.

00:03:11 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Now, while pregnancy loss is a difficult topic to discuss and think about, my hope is that you find something useful and inspiring from Natasha's experience. I know that I certainly did.

00:03:23 Dr Cristina Cavezza

I'd love to welcome on today's episode Dr Natasha Davison. Natasha it's so lovely to see you.

00:03:30 Dr Natasha Davison

It's so good.

00:03:30 Dr Natasha Davison

To be here, thank you for having me, Cristina.

00:03:32 Dr Cristina Cavezza

 Yes. Lovely. Why don't we start by you telling us a bit about?

00:03:36 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yourself and your multiple birth journey.

00:03:39 Dr Natasha Davison

Yeah. So I'm married. I'm a mom. I'm a registered health psychologist and a mindset coach for athletes and high performance people. I live in a beautiful part of Australia and Victoria, where I literally have Kangaroos.

00:03:53 Dr Natasha Davison

Jumping through my yard.

00:03:55 Dr Natasha Davison

And I just feel really blessed and.

00:03:58 Dr Natasha Davison

Happy to be here.

00:03:59 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Thanks, Natasha. Yeah, it's great to be here. I know I shared with listeners in the introduction a bit about our history, I guess and how we know each other and you know I'm so very grateful that you've agreed to be on the podcast today because I know that this isn't necessarily an easy topic for people to speak about or to even listen to. But I think it.

00:04:19 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Is an important.

00:04:20 Dr Cristina Cavezza

One to acknowledge because.

00:04:22 Dr Cristina Cavezza

As we know, multiple birth pregnancies are risky and sometimes unfortunate things do happen. So would you be willing to share with us a bit about your story and what happened to you?

00:04:31 Dr Natasha Davison

Yeah, sure. Yeah, absolutely. So I met my husband just before I turned 40, and I never really wanted to have kids until I met him. So we thought, oh, we'll just give it a try. And luckily we did get pregnant on our honeymoon, and we have a beautiful daughter now who is almost 12. And following that, we thought, we'll

00:04:51 Dr Natasha Davison

try again and after awhile

00:04:53 Dr Natasha Davison

it kind of wasn't happening, so we decided to go down the IVF

00:04:56 Dr Natasha Davison

route. And we 

00:04:58 Dr Natasha Davison

Were very lucky, actually, because we became pregnant on the first try with one egg.

00:05:03 Dr Natasha Davison

And we were.

00:05:04 Dr Natasha Davison

Like we were so excited. Anyway, we went for a scan.

00:05:08 Dr Natasha Davison

And it was quite an

00:05:09 Dr Natasha Davison

Early scan about 8 weeks and then they said we're having twins.

00:05:14 Dr Natasha Davison

And I said no, no, that's not possible. We only had one egg and no.

00:05:22 Dr Natasha Davison

He was like, yes, yes.

00:05:26 Dr Natasha Davison

So I was in shock actually because.

00:05:29 Dr Natasha Davison

First of all, I didn't.

00:05:30 Dr Natasha Davison

Really expect to get pregnant.

00:05:31 Dr Natasha Davison

On that first shot, particularly from.

00:05:33 Dr Natasha Davison

Only one egg

00:05:34 Dr Natasha Davison

Let alone to have twins. So my first thoughts were wow, how am I going?

00:05:36 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Absolutely, yeah.

00:05:39 Dr Natasha Davison

To cope I am.

00:05:40 Dr Natasha Davison

An older mum.

00:05:42 Dr Natasha Davison

Already and I have a toddler and to have.

00:05:45 Dr Natasha Davison

Twins as well, that was.

00:05:46 Dr Natasha Davison

Unexpected and can be big so.

00:05:49 Dr Natasha Davison

Nevertheless, I did adjust to that idea and we went and bought a bigger house and a bigger car and started preparing to be a family of five. And then it was at about 18 weeks. We went for a scan because, as you said, multiple pregnancy with multiple babies can be higher risk, and particularly because I was older.

00:06:09 Dr Natasha Davison

As well, so they're keeping across it and at about 18 weeks, we found out there was something called twin to twin Transfusion syndrome and we'd actually not heard of this before, we hadn't been informed of that. We just knew that there were higher risks associated with having a 

multiple pregnancy, so.

00:06:28 Dr Natasha Davison

So we didn't know anything about it and came to learn that, you know, it was about blood flowing unequally between the twins because they shared a placenta and that that can cause problems with growth and development with babies. So sort of from that point, they started monitoring very regularly. So we'd have scans.

00:06:48 Dr Natasha Davison

Quite frequently, and look at about 20 weeks. I was saying, look, it looks OK. No, we think sometimes it can self correct and.

00:06:55 Dr Natasha Davison

Things can be OK. So we were like, OK, that's good and sort of in the next breath they were.

00:07:00 Dr Natasha Davison

Saying it doesn't.

00:07:01 Dr Natasha Davison

Look good. We started to think about, OK, what does this mean? Where are we at? And the surgeon and doctors were absolutely amazing and just talked about. Look, there's a procedure that can be done in utero where we can do laser ablation.

00:07:16 Dr Natasha Davison

And that could be a possible fix to this problem for the babies and their growth and development. So we did go into hospital. We were about 22 weeks by that time after significant monitoring, they were saying look, it's getting to the point we need to do something. We went into hospital and had that operation.

00:07:34 Dr Natasha Davison

That went OK. Unfortunately, thought not very long after that. Within the next hour or so they were concerned about internal bleeding with me. And so I had to go back in.

00:07:45 Dr Natasha Davison

And check and that.

00:07:47 Dr Natasha Davison

From that point onwards, I went into Labour and was in Labour for a significant amount of time.

00:07:54 Dr Natasha Davison

Following that and we were still hopeful that things might settle down, but as we monitored over the next few days, unfortunately one of the twins died the following day and then a couple of days after that, the other twin died as well. So.

00:08:12 Dr Natasha Davison

So yeah. So on the 1st of May, 10 years ago actually it.

00:08:17 Dr Natasha Davison

Is I gave birth to still birth to twin boys.

00:08:22 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah. Wow, Natasha, thank you so much for sharing your story and what happened. I'm very grateful and appreciative of your willingness to talk about this with us and the listeners because I know that, you know, no one wants this to happen. And even now, when I hear.

00:08:43 Dr Cristina Cavezza

What happened to

00:08:43 Dr Cristina Cavezza

You. I'm struck with, you know, by it's a loss of words, I guess, of what to say. I'm so very sorry. I know I've said it before, but I am so very sorry.

00:08:52 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Sorry for your loss. I wonder if you could tell us a bit about the process once you receive the diagnosis of twin to twin transfusion syndrome. So it happened quite early in that you were told around the 18 week Mark. Yeah, this was happening. What was that process like in terms of interventions?

00:09:13 Dr Cristina Cavezza

What was explained to?

00:09:14 Dr Cristina Cavezza

You and and all of that.

00:09:16 Dr Natasha Davison

Yeah. So there was a lot of support. It's a lot of support from the hospital and from the staff there checking in. We had regular scans just monitoring and measuring and checking that was really the biggest thing.

00:09:32 Dr Natasha Davison

It meant I.

00:09:32 Dr Natasha Davison

Had to step back from work.

00:09:34 Dr Natasha Davison

Straight away and really just look after myself and look after them.

00:09:39 Dr Natasha Davison

As far as.

00:09:40 Dr Natasha Davison

Monitoring and checking and yeah, just monitoring and checking. There was a lot of monitoring and checking this there wasn't really anything they could do up until they then offered the surgery. 

00:09:50 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah, and at what 

00:09:52 Dr Cristina Cavezza

point was the surgery. How many weeks were you?

00:09:55 Dr Natasha Davison

So that was 22 weeks.

00:09:57 Dr Cristina Cavezza

That was 22 weeks, yeah.

00:09:59 Dr Natasha Davison

We're just actually, the surgery was probably almost 23 weeks.

00:10:03 Dr Natasha Davison

So the boys were born.

00:10:04 Dr Natasha Davison

At 23 weeks, 3 days so.

00:10:07 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Wow, OK.

00:10:08 Dr Natasha Davison

And part of it.

00:10:09 Dr Natasha Davison

Was about trying to hold on, you know, because if we could get them to a certain point where they would be viable to be born, it was kind of that. It was like, how long can we hold on? Can we get them through?

00:10:22 Dr Natasha Davison

So that then they can be born and we can support them outside in the outside world was part of.

00:10:29 Dr Natasha Davison

The thinking so.

00:10:30 Dr Natasha Davison

And unfortunately, we didn't get to that point.

00:10:33 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned that the hospital was really supportive or that there were supports there. Can you tell us a bit about that? What supports were available to you during the process, but even afterwards?

00:10:46 Dr Natasha Davison

Yeah. So during the process, it was just that checking in monitoring was a lot of that afterwards and even during because I went into labour after the operations. During that time the nurses were phenomenal. They gave me my own private room.

00:11:03 Dr Natasha Davison

Because I was in Labour, there's obviously.

00:11:05 Dr Natasha Davison

A lot of pain and.

00:11:06 Dr Natasha Davison

Each of the nurses are what I found was each of them had their own strengths. So.

00:11:10 Dr Natasha Davison

One was about OK.

00:11:11 Dr Natasha Davison

Let's help you feel good as far as brush your hair and do some things. Other nurses were that more emotional support, even like the tea lady who would come in, she actually went and found a television for me just so.

00:11:23 Dr Natasha Davison

I had something to watch and.

00:11:24 Dr Natasha Davison

Look at. So I think it was.

00:11:26 Dr Natasha Davison

That just feeling like everyone was there doing the best job that they could, and my husband was there. He slept on a tiny little gym mat next to my bed, and then my surgeon, like, she's a professor. She's amazing. She would call me and gave me her personal phone number and said if there's any questions or anything you need.

00:11:47 Dr Natasha Davison

You can call me. I never did.

00:11:48 Dr Natasha Davison

But just that she did that knowing that just was so beautiful and amazing.

00:11:54 Dr Natasha Davison

So there was.

00:11:55 Dr Natasha Davison

All of that really.

00:11:56 Dr Natasha Davison

Around that time in the operation, and then afterwards when we lost the boys, even at the time, it was like, how can we?

00:12:03 Dr Natasha Davison

Make this comfortable.

00:12:04 Dr Natasha Davison

For you. So we planned the birth we planned, how it would be and who.

00:12:09 Dr Natasha Davison

Would be there.

00:12:10 Dr Natasha Davison

I said how I wanted things to be. They accommodated that so that it was as beautiful as an experience as it could be, you know, because we'd already lost them. So all of that was lovely. And then the support really from. So then I don't know if you've heard of that organisation called Heartfelt.

00:12:29 Dr Cristina Cavezza

No, I haven't actually.

00:12:30 Dr Natasha Davison

It's a friend of mine from many years ago. We did a course together and I'm talking maybe 30 years ago. He actually started this organisation. He's a photographer. His name's Gavin blue. It's a voluntary organisation and they come out and do photographs with you and your babies either from when they've been still born.

00:12:51 Dr Natasha Davison

Or children with severe or threatening illnesses and.

00:12:55 Dr Natasha Davison

Will create these most.

00:12:56 Dr Natasha Davison

Beautiful photos and memories with you and your babies. So. So he was contacted.

00:13:01 Dr Natasha Davison

I didn't know. I didn't.

00:13:02 Dr Natasha Davison

Realise it was going to be Gavin who came out, so that was a beautiful experience for.

00:13:06 Dr Natasha Davison

Me, but they had.

00:13:07 Dr Natasha Davison

Volunteer photographers who go and do that, and they basically come out like straight away. If I wanted them that night, they would have come out. And I said in the mornings, OK and.

00:13:17 Dr Natasha Davison

So we have those beautiful photos and memories, and that's all free of charge. That's just ohh so amazing. And then we had other organisations.

00:13:26 Dr Natasha Davison

Some of them had teddy bears because one of the hardest things was walking out of that hospital with empty arms and so they'd organised to have these teddy bears.

00:13:36 Dr Natasha Davison

That you could hold as you walk out and then access to services and books of people talking about their experiences. Like I feel really blessed, you know, in some ways because we got so much support at the right time in the right way and then leaving hospital and then coming home, we were able to access some.

00:13:56 Dr Natasha Davison

Counselling look and we probably only do one.

00:13:58 Dr Natasha Davison

Or two of those sessions, but just.

00:14:00 Dr Natasha Davison

Putting things together and understanding that however, I was and however we felt we were, we could be that way. We chose to have a funeral, but we only invited very close, a very select, intimate kind of group of people to share that experience.

00:14:19 Dr Natasha Davison

We have them at the cemetery and I guess one of the things for me was that I was very cognizant I was very aware of making sure that I was doing things that I thought I might need or want in the future. So we did that and I get and everyone can't do that or.

00:14:37 Dr Natasha Davison

Doesn't want to do.

00:14:38 Dr Natasha Davison

That but for us we did that because I thought this might be important for me to be able to go somewhere and sit and be with them. Now, as it turns out, it's not. It's not something I go and do, but I wanted to have that option. And so I think just having the right people around you, I had a girlfriend who was very she would speak their names and talk about them.

00:15:00 Dr Natasha Davison

I had people who would do practical things.

00:15:03 Dr Natasha Davison

You know, like a meal and.

00:15:04 Dr Natasha Davison

Those sort of things.

00:15:06 Dr Natasha Davison

I do feel very blessed and I understand.

00:15:08 Dr Natasha Davison

That some people.

00:15:10 Dr Natasha Davison

Don't have that or don't have access to that for me, we were very well supported both during at the time and then afterwards.

00:15:19 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm hearing you speak. I'm thinking there's those levels of support.

00:15:23 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Right that we might.

00:15:24 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Need after an experience like that, which is that practical support in that we might need somebody to.

00:15:31 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Just do the thinking for us in that moment. Like what we might need in terms of a meal. Or do we need a hot shower or what, you know, bath drawn or whatever it is. But then that other layer of support that's probably needed ongoing maybe. Is that kind of emotional support. And it sounds like.

00:15:51 Dr Cristina Cavezza

You said you accessed some counselling, some limited time, limited counselling, but you did have people around you who provided that emotional buffer, if you like.

00:16:02 Dr Natasha Davison

Absolutely, absolutely. We had that and.

00:16:05 Dr Natasha Davison

Because I was also so it was really, you know, I was healing in lots of ways, you know, because physically was really my first thing. I was very unwell and.

00:16:15 Dr Natasha Davison

Had a lot.

00:16:15 Dr Natasha Davison

Of healing physical healing to do as well. So it was really, you know, I had nurses come in and help me with that and doctors support and really it was my willingness and openness to take.

00:16:27 Dr Natasha Davison

Whatever support was being offered now, I.

00:16:29 Dr Natasha Davison

Think that that I was.

00:16:31 Dr Natasha Davison

Open to that and accepting of that, which can be very hard, I think, and I haven't been that kind of person really prior to that. But I knew I think from.

00:16:41 Dr Natasha Davison

Being a psychologist and research and things, it's just like.

00:16:44 Dr Natasha Davison

And being able to accept that and allow for that and receive that support was the best thing I could have done and not everyone got it right. They can't, and even in that though, I was able to go, what's their intention? You know, what's their intention even when people got it wrong and I.

00:17:02 Dr Natasha Davison

Was like oh.

00:17:03 Dr Natasha Davison

You know, but.

00:17:04 Dr Natasha Davison

I wanted to see, well, what's their.

00:17:05 Dr Natasha Davison

Intention behind this and.

00:17:06 Dr Natasha Davison

I got are their intention is just to connect.

00:17:08 Dr Natasha Davison

With me to try and let me.

00:17:10 Dr Natasha Davison

Know that they're there for.

00:17:11 Dr Natasha Davison

Me or that they have compassion or understanding.

00:17:14 Dr Natasha Davison

So I was really conscious of making sure that I was accepting of that.

00:17:20 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Hi there Fierce Kind Mama, are you expecting multiples and wondering how you're going to cope when the babies arrive?

00:17:26 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Or do you already have multiples at home and wonder will this ever get easier?

00:17:32 Dr Cristina Cavezza

First of all, let me say loud and.

00:17:33 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Clear I get it. 

00:17:34 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Feeling overwhelmed in motherhood is really common, and us mothers of multiples are particularly prone to feeling sometimes, like it's all too much.

00:17:45 Dr Cristina Cavezza

I know for myself that becoming a first time mother to twins at the age of 40 was a huge adjustment physically and psychologically. So I've taken my years of training in mental health and my experience coaching mothers of multiples and put together a guide with my 5 top tips for overcoming overwhelm as a multiple birth parent. This guide is free of course.

00:18:05 Dr Cristina Cavezza

And it doesn't matter what age multiples you have.

00:18:07 Dr Cristina Cavezza

You may be pregnant, or your multiples might

00:18:10 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Have already left home.

00:18:11 Dr Cristina Cavezza

The principles apply to all parents of multiples, and because I know you're short on time, I've broken down the tips into easy to read chunks that you can begin implementing straight away . You can get your free copy now by signing up at my website, fiercekindmama.com.

00:18:29 Dr Cristina Cavezza

When you were speaking, you were talking about the intention behind people's actions, and even though they might have gotten it wrong and that it didn't have the effect that they were hoping for, that that you knew deep down that there was a benevolent or a positive intention behind it. I'm wondering, what did you find helpful?

00:18:47 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Going through all of this and what you found may be unhelpful.

00:18:51 Dr Natasha Davison

Probably the most helpful.

00:18:52 Dr Natasha Davison

Again, it was it being accepting of people's love and support.

00:18:56 Dr Natasha Davison

I think the most helpful thing for me.

00:18:58 Dr Natasha Davison

Was, though was about.

00:18:59 Dr Natasha Davison

Me being OK with however, I was to be honest. Like of course I had all that external love and support and people connecting.

00:19:09 Dr Natasha Davison

But for me it was about me being able to say. However you are is completely fine and if.

00:19:16 Dr Natasha Davison

You're happy sometimes. That's OK.

00:19:19 Dr Natasha Davison

And if you're sad and feeling and excruciating, cause there were times I was in excruciating pain, you know, it felt physical. It was emotional pain, but it felt very physical.

00:19:29 Dr Natasha Davison

Was very, very painful, but it was.

00:19:32 Dr Natasha Davison

Me being OK.

00:19:33 Dr Natasha Davison

With however, I was and accepting of. However, I was as well as. However, other people were.

00:19:39 Dr Natasha Davison

So and the other part was knowing knowing that at some point this would really help me with my empathy, my understanding with being able to help other people. That was really helpful knowing that that feeling like that I could help others with this at some point in the future. But yes, I'm going through it now.

00:19:59 Dr Natasha Davison

myself, but this will help me help others in the 

00:20:03 Dr Natasha Davison

Future and there were times it was really hard like getting through.

00:20:08 Dr Natasha Davison

Even an hour even.

00:20:09 Dr Natasha Davison

A minute. Sometimes it was about getting through a minute in a day, but I would have this mantra that I found really helpful for me, which was it's just for now. It's not forever, and sometimes I would and it really would be that mantra. I would have to say that to myself.

00:20:24 Dr Natasha Davison

I have to remind myself that I wouldn't always feel this way, that it will pass or will change will be different and so just get through this next minute or this.

00:20:34 Dr Natasha Davison

Next hour or?

00:20:35 Dr Natasha Davison

This next day, no. And then do.

00:20:38 Dr Natasha Davison

Do so, allow myself to feel whatever I was feeling, but then also do whatever I needed to do. And again, I was very blessed to be able to take some time away from work and have a very supportive husband in that so I could do what I needed to do to reconnect with my daughter again after being in hospital and being very unwell.

00:21:00 Dr Natasha Davison

To support myself in getting through an hour, sometimes I would go to the movies or.

00:21:06 Dr Natasha Davison

Catch up with a friend or just sit. You know, be able to do those things. And I again, I get that not everyone's able to.

00:21:12 Dr Natasha Davison

Do that but.

00:21:14 Dr Natasha Davison

That was certainly really helpful for me to have that time out and then adjust to a new future, a future that didn't include a family of five.

00:21:25 Dr Natasha Davison

Or where we didn't need the big house or the big car. So just space and time to grieve and feel the feelings and know.

00:21:33 Dr Natasha Davison

That it wasn't forever.

00:21:35 Dr Natasha Davison

And that I.

00:21:36 Dr Natasha Davison

Would use this at some point in the future to help someone else, even if it's one person.

00:21:40 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah, yeah, I know. Just because I know of you in terms of your professional work and we have that history where we know a bit about each other and the work that we do and I can attest to the fact that you help other people, there's no doubt in my mind how much of an impact you have on other people's life, including my own. You know, I think.

00:22:00 Dr Cristina Cavezza

I find you.

00:22:01 Dr Cristina Cavezza

I know I've said it to you before and and that's why I wanted you on the show so badly is because I do find you so inspiring.

00:22:08 Dr Cristina Cavezza

And I know we talked about all the things that you found helpful during that time where there's some things that people did or said that were clearly unhelpful or you know, that I guess didn't serve the purpose that might have been behind, like there might been good intention, but it didn't quite didn't quite serve that purpose.

00:22:24 Dr Natasha Davison

Well, I think.

00:22:24 Dr Natasha Davison

It's always when people say they know I know what you're going through and anytime and I think.

00:22:31 Dr Natasha Davison

I say that because they're all so unique, and individual, and even if someone else has lost twins, let alone any other loss, or it's not exactly the same as my experience, and you can't know because you can't know all the dreams and the hopes and the background and the things around that.

00:22:51 Dr Natasha Davison

My own experiences in life, so I always think you know, and this is for anything, really, not just in this case, but people will say, oh, I know what you're feeling. I know what you're thinking about that I always find that very unhelpful because it always makes.

00:23:03 Dr Natasha Davison

Me. Go. No, you don't. And how?

00:23:05 Dr Natasha Davison

Can you you?

00:23:06 Dr Natasha Davison

Know and it's like me as a psychologist. I can't know what someone is sitting in front of me.

00:23:10 Dr Natasha Davison

Is feeling and thinking I can listen. I can empathise. I can help, but I can't know. I can't know. So for me, probably it was that. And even peoples unintentional unhelpfulness was OK for me because I really did take their intentions out of it. But it's when people say.

00:23:30 Dr Natasha Davison

I know, I know what you mean.

00:23:32 Dr Natasha Davison

I know what that's like and it's.

00:23:33 Dr Natasha Davison

Like, no, you really can't and you don't.

00:23:37 Dr Natasha Davison

So please don't.

00:23:38 Dr Natasha Davison

Say that you know that that for me was the thing.

00:23:39 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yes. Yeah.

00:23:41 Dr Natasha Davison

The thing you know out of everything.

00:23:43 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a standout one for sure. Now I know you've touched on, you know how this affected some other areas of your life in terms of you having to take some time off work and things like that. What impact did it have on you in terms of your relationships and your career and how did you navigate all of that?

00:24:01 Dr Natasha Davison

So let's see if I start with my relationships. Definitely brought us closer together and again, that doesn't happen for everyone. This can be a very testing and trying time for people. I really understand that, but we worked really hard to make sure this was something that brought us closer together and it certainly did as far as a family, you know both.

00:24:21 Dr Natasha Davison

With my husband and my daughter, but also our immediate family and friends as.

00:24:26 Dr Natasha Davison

Well, you know.

00:24:27 Dr Natasha Davison

And I think it often helps to sort.

00:24:29 Dr Natasha Davison

Out the real relationships for you, you know the important relationships and who's really there.

00:24:35 Dr Natasha Davison

Or who can?

00:24:36 Dr Natasha Davison

Be there even because some people can't be. And I also get that too. And just noticing the different roles and relationships. So it does change. It does change things I think. And I think it can be for the better actually. Although I know it's not always that as far as work. So it made me reconsider.

00:24:55 Dr Natasha Davison

So I kind of took.

00:24:56 Dr Natasha Davison

The six months off and then thought. Ohh maybe because you.

00:25:01 Dr Natasha Davison

Know I think.

00:25:01 Dr Natasha Davison

You start well, I started to look for.

00:25:04 Dr Natasha Davison

Or OK, if it's not this, if I'm not meant to be a mum of more than one child, maybe I'm meant to contribute in a different way, and so I'm starting to search for the meaning or the purpose. And so I'd always had this little flame for being a primary school teacher. So I actually started that when I first left high school.

00:25:24 Dr Natasha Davison

And never completed it went to psychology.

00:25:26 Dr Natasha Davison

And went from there and.

00:25:27 Dr Natasha Davison

I thought, well, maybe this is about me being a primary school teacher and having space for other children and being able to do that. So I actually went back to university.

00:25:36 Dr Natasha Davison

And study to be a primary teacher. So I'm actually qualified in that now. I did that and really enjoyed that and it was a really good way of me getting back into life and back into thinking and studying without having to do psychology. I didn't feel ready to go back to that at that time.

00:25:56 Dr Natasha Davison

And just thought, OK, this could be a change. This could be a good thing. So I went back and did that, got towards the end of that year and was like, hmm, it's like psychology or teaching. I was kind of.

00:26:08 Dr Natasha Davison

Tossing it out and.

00:26:09 Dr Natasha Davison

Then my friend who was in private practise said to me, oh, look, I'm really busy.

00:26:13 Dr Natasha Davison

At this time of the year.

00:26:14 Dr Natasha Davison

If you'd like to see.

00:26:15 Dr Natasha Davison

A few clients.

00:26:17 Dr Natasha Davison

I've got some people you could see, and I said absolutely, I said as long as there's no none with pregnancy loss or anything to do with that, I think I could definitely help people. I feel ready for that again now. And I started seeing people and.

00:26:30 Dr Natasha Davison

I went ohh. That's right. I love psychology. I.

00:26:33 Dr Natasha Davison

Love talking to people and helping people.

00:26:34 Dr Natasha Davison

In this way.

00:26:35 Dr Natasha Davison

And so the teaching never eventuated, although I do see myself as a bit of an educator and a teacher, and love being in that space of giving people education information because I like seeing people being able to do things for themselves, you know, have the tools and techniques so they can do it.

00:26:54 Dr Natasha Davison

But yes, I stepped back into the psychology space at that point in time and went into private practise.

00:26:59 Dr Cristina Cavezza

You know, wow.

00:27:00 Dr Cristina Cavezza

You know, when you were speaking, I was thinking about the idea of psychology and teaching kind of being intertwined in a lot of ways like there.

00:27:07 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Is a lot of.

00:27:08 Dr Cristina Cavezza

You know, psychology? Sometimes we think it's about helping people, right? But in that there are lessons, I guess that we learn through life and experience and and there are teachings, right, that we might give to our clients and it got me thinking too, when you're talking about your own experience, and what happened to you. I imagine that with any loss or tragedy we learn.

00:27:29 Dr Cristina Cavezza

You know, we learn something about ourselves, don't we? We learn something about.

00:27:32 Dr Cristina Cavezza

About life or how resilient we.

00:27:35 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Are and I wonder what some of the lessons?

00:27:37 Dr Cristina Cavezza

For you were.

00:27:39 Dr Natasha Davison

Yeah, I love that, Cristina, because I think.

00:27:41 Dr Natasha Davison

That's such an important.

00:27:43 Dr Natasha Davison

Part of being able to move forward actually and not getting stuck is actually being able to take the learning some lessons from something you know, being able to see.

00:27:52 Dr Natasha Davison

What can I get from this? What are some of the things that I've taken that I've learned either about myself or about life or?

00:27:59 Dr Natasha Davison

Those kind of things, so absolutely. Well, I learned about me that I'm really strong and resilient and way more than I ever.

00:28:09 Dr Natasha Davison

Gave myself credit.

00:28:10 Dr Natasha Davison

For actually, because if I think about what happened at that time, I think, and I think about the person I was and.

00:28:19 Dr Natasha Davison

If I thought.

00:28:19 Dr Natasha Davison

Ohh, you'd have to go through something like that. I would have said I could never get through something like that. How could I?

00:28:26 Dr Natasha Davison

And I think when you come up against those things and you have to and you do, you can take so much from that about who you are getting through those adversities and surviving. And then because I feel now that I'm now thriving, yeah, I learned I'm strong. I'm strong. I'm way.

00:28:43 Dr Natasha Davison

Stronger than I thought I was.

00:28:45 Dr Natasha Davison

And resilient and I

00:28:49 Dr Natasha Davison

Think I learned that people are actually really so kind and so beautiful. And when they are given an opportunity to step up, they really can and do. Most people you know, I'm just reminded of we wanted to send out cards to people.

00:29:09 Dr Natasha Davison

To say thank you for all of the support that you've given us after we've lost the boys in.

00:29:14 Dr Natasha Davison

Whatever way and just let people know.

00:29:15 Dr Natasha Davison

Where we're at and we used.

00:29:16 Dr Natasha Davison

One of the photos from heartfelt actually on the front and.

00:29:19 Dr Natasha Davison

Just said thank you. We appreciate all.

00:29:21 Dr Natasha Davison

All of that.

00:29:22

But we couldn't.

00:29:23 Dr Natasha Davison

Find like cards to do it it it was a different time even just ten years ago. As to now where you can get things printed yourself and do all of that. And one of the card companies, the local card company, Simpsons, actually in Australia, we told them about what we were looking for and they actually said we'll do them.

00:29:42 Dr Natasha Davison

For you at no charge, and they took the photo on the card and they designed it all and sent it.

00:29:47 Dr Natasha Davison

To us and said is this OK?

00:29:49 Dr Natasha Davison

And we said yes and then they printed them all up with envelopes and sent them out to us at no charge, like they didn't even know us. And I.

00:29:57 Dr Natasha Davison

Just think that level.

00:29:58 Dr Natasha Davison

Of kindness and generosity and support.

00:30:01 Dr Natasha Davison

When people are given the opportunity to.

00:30:03 Dr Natasha Davison

Express that or show.

00:30:04 Dr Natasha Davison

That, like I always think there's good in everyone.

00:30:07 Dr Natasha Davison

But I was so shocked and surprised at.

00:30:09 Dr Natasha Davison

The level of generosity that people would go to and express and provide, I think that was my biggest learning how kind and beautiful and amazing people can really be when given an opportunity.

00:30:20 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah. Wow. Natasha. I've got goosebumps. When you told that story. You know, I love that lesson. I think it's such a positive way of looking

00:30:28 Dr Cristina Cavezza

at a situation where obviously a lot of people could turn into something really negative about themselves or the world you chose differently, you know you chose to see kind of the positive moments that came out of that. I wonder, you know, I know you've said a few times this happened a while ago now, and it's been I believe today is the 10 year anniversary. I wonder if your relationship.

00:30:48 Dr Cristina Cavezza

To what happened has changed over time.

00:30:52 Dr Natasha Davison

Yes, it definitely has. So I think I said that it was at the time it was the most excruciating thing I've ever been through. To be honest. It really was the most painful.

00:31:03 Dr Natasha Davison

And the depths of grief and sadness I'd never known prior to that time. And now, though, for me and again, I know I've said this a few times, but it's not the same for everyone, because we're all so different. But for me, it feels like.

00:31:19 Dr Natasha Davison

That's how it was.

00:31:20 Dr Natasha Davison

Meant to be.

00:31:22 Dr Natasha Davison

You know, because it's now allowed me to.

00:31:25 Dr Natasha Davison

Do things in my life that I might not have been able to do otherwise, had we had twins, so it doesn't mean that I wouldn't have wanted that. I absolutely did. And.

00:31:37 Dr Natasha Davison

Don't wonder and wish about that every day and think what that might be.

00:31:40 Dr Natasha Davison

Like, but there are things that I get that I wouldn't be doing or couldn't have done had we had that big family. And so in some ways, I think.

00:31:50 Dr Natasha Davison

Well, maybe it.

00:31:50 Dr Natasha Davison

Was meant to be this way. You know that I can share this and maybe help other people that I've got to do all these other.

00:31:57 Dr Natasha Davison

Things in my life.

00:31:58 Dr Natasha Davison

And so for me, the meaning.

00:32:00 Dr Natasha Davison

I've just taken is that I think this is how it was meant to.

00:32:04 Dr Natasha Davison

Me for me to get this opportunity to do these kinds of things and be the person.

00:32:10 Dr Natasha Davison

I am today.

00:32:12 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Thank you, Natasha. I know that there might be some listeners who are going through a multiple birth pregnancy. They might have, I guess a similar type of pregnancy in terms of monochorionic diamniotic twins. So they might.

00:32:26 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Also be kind.

00:32:26 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Of worried about.

00:32:28 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Twin to twin transfusion syndrome. I know I certainly was in my pregnancy, I wonder what advice you would give to those families or those listeners who might be worried about or are already going through something similar.

00:32:42 Dr Natasha Davison

Umm for me, even at the time I remained in a very positive mind frame while holding that holding that OK, that is a possibility. I get that.

00:32:56 Dr Natasha Davison

And I'm not focusing on that. I'm focusing on what can we do? How can I be the best I can be for?

00:33:03 Dr Natasha Davison

These how do we keep moving forward in this in this way like?

00:33:08 Dr Natasha Davison

I'm not sure I'm expressing it very well.

00:33:10 Dr Natasha Davison

To you, but.

00:33:11 Dr Natasha Davison

To me, it's not where I would.

00:33:13 Dr Natasha Davison

Put my focus.

00:33:14 Dr Natasha Davison

Because I know our mind is so powerful.

00:33:16 Dr Natasha Davison

In creating things, it's like our minds so.

00:33:18 Dr Natasha Davison

Powerful that you

00:33:19 Dr Natasha Davison

Want to focus on what you want so I always try and keep my mind focused on how do I want it to be? What do.

00:33:25 Dr Natasha Davison

I want this to be like.

00:33:27 Dr Natasha Davison

What can I do to support what I want and how we want this to be and I can hold that in the background knowing that so it's not dismissing that or avoiding that or, but my focus is all about looking after myself and the people around me in the way that we need to to get the.

00:33:45 Dr Natasha Davison

Result that we're looking for.

00:33:47 Dr Natasha Davison

And I say that because I think when you focus on that worry and that concern, you lose any.

00:33:54 Dr Natasha Davison

Of the joy and the.

00:33:55 Dr Natasha Davison

Beautiful moments that you might have in between.

00:33:59 Dr Natasha Davison

And maybe for no, like there's no outcome to that. It's like it sucks the joy out of something

00:34:05 Dr Natasha Davison

that doesn't need to be at that point, so let's keep focused on what we want and the joy of this and yes that's there. But let's take what we can and then if something happens, of course, then we do what we need to do.

00:34:21 Dr Natasha Davison

In those moments.

00:34:23 Dr Natasha Davison

But in the meantime, let's keep focused on.

00:34:26 Dr Natasha Davison

What we can do and what we need and want.

00:34:29 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah, yeah, I love that. I think it's such a powerful advice because really a lot of what we do as psychologists right, is help people focus on what is within their control and also that present moment and and not losing contact with.

00:34:42 Dr Cristina Cavezza

What we're experiencing presently rather than what we're afraid.

00:34:45 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Might happen or.

00:34:47 Dr Natasha Davison

Yeah. Ohh you said that so beautifully.

00:34:51 Dr Natasha Davison

That's exactly what I was saying.

00:34:52 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yes, well I was just following from your wonderful words of wisdom, Natasha. I've really enjoyed this conversation. And again, as I've said so many times already, I know I find you so inspiring. I know you do a lot of work.

00:35:05 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Helping other people, and I'd love for us to end this conversation with you, telling us a bit about the work that you do, where people can find out more about you.

00:35:12 Dr Cristina Cavezza

But I also.

00:35:12 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Know you've written a book, so I want to give that a mention as.

00:35:15 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Well, I want.

00:35:16 Dr Cristina Cavezza

You to tell us a bit about that and what inspired you to write the.

00:35:19 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Book I believe it's called real talk. Real change.

00:35:22 Dr Natasha Davison

Yes, I did write a book.

00:35:24 Dr Natasha Davison

That was a little.

00:35:25 Dr Natasha Davison

Journey in and.

00:35:26 Dr Natasha Davison

Of itself, way more difficult than I thought that might be. You know, I think particularly if you've been through university and you've written lots of papers and doing that, you think ohh I can do that. That's no worries. But this particular project for me was one from the heart.

00:35:42 Dr Natasha Davison

So it actually was very personal in the journey of that book and probably not inspired by my boys, but I did it with them in mind because and I share my story in that book because I wanted it to be about real things that people knew that you can get through really hard things.

00:36:03 Dr Natasha Davison

So I actually and it's not common I think particularly as psychologists for us to share our personal stories. But I actually share my story in there to let people know I've been through something hard and was able to get through and survive and thrive from that and give them hope that they can too. So.

00:36:20 Dr Natasha Davison

The book shares my story. The book is actually written. It's not revolutionary by any means. It's got a focus on cognitive behavioural therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy, which a lot of people do that I wrote it in a very informal, conversational style. And I haven't put all the research and all the things in there because I wanted it to feel like you were just having a chat.

00:36:42 Dr Natasha Davison

With me, I wanted to speak to people in the book as if they were sitting next to me and we were just talking about those things and.

00:36:48 Dr Natasha Davison

Those topics so.

00:36:50 Dr Natasha Davison

I wanted it to be different in that way that it wasn't a hard to read sciency kind of book.

00:36:55 Dr Natasha Davison

I even swear a little bit in there so. So just let people know in case  they don't like swearing. I do do a little bit.

00:37:02 Dr Natasha Davison

Of swearing because it's.

00:37:03 Dr Natasha Davison

Real it's real.

00:37:04 Dr Natasha Davison

It's kind of my expression sometimes with some other things. So and really it's just talking to people about.

00:37:10 Dr Natasha Davison

giving them a foundational understanding about stress and anxiety and how that works in our

00:37:15 Dr Natasha Davison

Body and how our thinking can affect how we feel and how our feelings affect how we behave or the things we do and how they impact on each other. So that real CBT kind of

00:37:26 Dr Natasha Davison

Focus, but in.

00:37:27 Dr Natasha Davison

A chatty kind of way and say chat with.

00:37:29 Dr Natasha Davison

Doctor Nat.

00:37:31

And and and with.

00:37:31 Dr Cristina Cavezza

That would have been a great title.

00:37:36 Dr Natasha Davison

Thank you. You know, and it was.

00:37:38 Dr Natasha Davison

Just to appeal to people who wanted that informal

00:37:42 Dr Natasha Davison

Kind of conversational style book. So that's.

00:37:45

What that was.

00:37:46 Dr Cristina Cavezza

And lovely. And where can people find

00:37:49 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Out more about you.

00:37:49 Dr Cristina Cavezza

And the work that you do?

00:37:50 Dr Natasha Davison

Yeah. So I have a website, drnatashadavison.com.au You can still find me on yourlocalpsychologist.com.au

00:38:00 Dr Natasha Davison

with my

00:38:01 Dr Natasha Davison

Clinic. Although I am moving into new programmes and new things.

00:38:06 Dr Natasha Davison

So I'm working particularly with high performance industries, elite athletes and sports people.

00:38:12 Dr Natasha Davison

and really moving into that coaching space, high performance space in a programme called winning from within. So that's kind of where I'm heading.

00:38:22 Dr Cristina Cavezza

OK, watch this space. I love it it.

00:38:24 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Sounds really exciting.

00:38:25 Dr Natasha Davison

Yeah. Thank you. Thanks, Cristina. I'm excited. 

00:38:30 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Lovely. Well, thank you so much Natasha, for being on today's show and for sharing your personal experience, your wisdom with us and your knowledge. It's been really.

00:38:39 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Wonderful having you on today.

00:38:41 Dr Natasha Davison

Thank you, Cristina. I really appreciate the opportunity and the opportunity to share with people and I just hope.

00:38:48 Dr Natasha Davison

Maybe a little bit or some of that helps some people, or even one person would be lovely. So thank you.

00:38:54 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Thanks again. 

00:38:58 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Thanks for listening to today's episode. If you like what you've heard, then please follow and leave a review so that other expectant and current parents of multiples like yourself can find this podcast and the valuable information it contains. I'd be so very grateful if you left a review and share this with anyone you think could benefit from listening.

00:39:17 Dr Cristina Cavezza

If you have a.

00:39:17 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Particular topic you'd like me to cover on this podcast, feel free to reach out to me via my website fiercekindmama.com

00:39:25 Dr Cristina Cavezza

New episodes are released every second Wednesday, so we'll see you back here real soon. Any advice and information on this podcast is general only and has been prepared without taking into account your particular circumstances and needs. For tailored, individualised advice, please consult with a qualified professional. 

00:39:45 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Consult with a qualified professional.