Reproductive Advocacy for Fat and BIPOC individuals with Michelle Cruz

Joining us from the heart of Texas, Michelle Cruz is not just a birth doula but a dynamic force, an advocate, and the President of the Central Texas Doula Association. Her passion lies in supporting families through the incredible journey of pregnancy and birth. Michelle's advocacy particularly shines in her dedication to individuals identifying as Fat, Black, Indigenous, and People of Colour.

Michelle is a mother of three, including twins. She also identifies as a neurodivergent individual. Through her advocacy and work, she's making waves in supporting adult learners, emphasizing education, and breaking down barriers.

Michelle delves into her personal experiences and those of the mothers she supports, shedding light on the discrimination and inequity prevalent in the healthcare system and beyond. This interview is not just a conversation; it's a powerful narrative exposing the challenges faced by many, especially Black Mamas.

Throughout our conversation, Michelle's vibrant personality shines. Her commitment and dedication to her family and her work are evident. You'll hear her speak not only as an advocate but as a mother who navigates the complexities of life, sharing stories that resonate deeply.

I hope as you listen to this episode, you feel inspired and enlightened.

If you'd like to connect with Michelle or learn more about her work, her details are:

Email: 360doula@gmail.com

Social media: @galacticdoula

Website: https://linktr.ee/galacticdoula

Thanks for listening! If you are a soon-to-be or current parent of multiples, be sure to head over to my website http://www.fiercekindmama.com to get my FREE resources designed specifically for you!

Be sure to follow me on Instagram and Facebook too.

Credits:
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/aylex/with-you
License code: YLMJTQCPKRANEOVB

Transcript

00:00:06 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Welcome to the Fierce Kind Mama of Multiples podcast. This podcast is for anyone raising multiples, twins, triplets or more. I speak to inspiring parents of multiples who have healed from unexpected pregnancies and birthing experiences and who candidly share the highs and lows raising multiples.

00:00:27 Dr Cristina Cavezza

I also speak to the professionals that work with multiple birth families. Together we cover the practicalities of raising more than one baby at a time, as well as enhancing the emotional well-being of caregivers and children alike.

00:00:41 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Come join us as we laugh, cry and share our personal and professional wisdom on all things multiples. I'm your host, Dr Cristina Cavezza and I am a Fierce Kind Mama of Multiples.

00:00:59 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Today I'm joined by Michelle Cruz. Michelle is a dynamic force in the reproductive space, serving as a passionate birth doula and the president of the Central Texas Doula Association in the United States. Her work focuses on supporting families through pregnancy and birth, with a particular advocacy for individuals identifying as fat, black,

00:01:18 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Indigenous and people of color. She's a mother of three, including twins.

00:01:24 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Michelle, who is Neurodivergent herself, is an advocate for education and is dedicated to adult learners. She's making a significant impact in reproductive advocacy, especially for black Mamas in her vibrant Austin community. You're going to hear Michelle talk about her own personal experiences as well as those mothers she supports

00:01:43 Dr Cristina Cavezza

who experience discrimination and inequity in the healthcare system and beyond.

00:01:49 Dr Cristina Cavezza

I really hope you'll be able to hear her vibrant personality and commitment and dedication to her family and work throughout this interview. I hope you enjoyed the conversation and if you have any feedback or follow up questions, feel free to reach out to me or to connect with Michelle. I'll pop her contact details in the show notes.

00:02:08 Dr Cristina Cavezza

So wonderful to have you here, Michelle.

00:02:12 Michelle Cruz

Thank you. I'm excited to be a part of your podcast today.

00:02:15 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Thank you so much. Why don't we start...Why don't we just dive in and start by you

00:02:18 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Telling us a bit about yourself and the work that you do?

00:02:19 Michelle Cruz

Yeah. So I am birth doula primarily, and I've spent the last five years in reproductive space, either in educating people to become doulas, educating mothers and fathers and parents to be, and also helping folks that have reproductive struggles.

00:02:36 Michelle Cruz

Endometriosis PCOS

00:02:37 Michelle Cruz

and who are fat and black and exist in a space that otherwise wouldn't be supported. So that's where I I exist and I am the the galactic doula. As my business name and I'm proud to be neurodivergent and helping folks with anxiety as well. And those whose brains may work differently.

00:02:58 Michelle Cruz

That's me.

00:02:58 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Wow. Yeah, I love that. Can you tell us a little bit about the name galactic doula? How did that come about?

00:03:03 Michelle Cruz

Yeah. So I love the name. I'm very nerdy and space oriented, and so my husband's actually an aerospace engineer. I've always been one to be on the, like, looking into research for space and science and technology and Star Trek and all the nerdy

00:03:21 Michelle Cruz

things and I really wanted to have something that held space. And so I think of when I come into a birth environment at a home or a hospital or even an educational space, we're literally coming together and the Galaxy as a whole is the space we already inhabit. And so I bring space to people where they otherwise may not have it.

00:03:42 Michelle Cruz

Have someone to hold it for them or support them either emotionally or physically and.

00:03:47 Michelle Cruz

I wanted to rebrand and so I used to be Doula 360 with my sister. She did postpartum support. I did birth support but now I am the one doing this process and she's off doing amazing things, doing nonprofit work and so I figured I wanted to be something that was just for me and I am the galactic doula and that's how it came about and I love it. So it makes more sense.

00:04:07 Michelle Cruz

For me, in the sense that I can be unique and be different and encompass more supportive work and be more niche work for those who are neurodivergent.

00:04:17 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Wow, that's amazing. I really love that. I love that you how you described holding space for families. I think that's such an important aspect that often is not. It's kind of brushed aside a little bit. You know, it's kind of like we just got to go through the checks and monitor monitor you monitor you and the pregnancy and do all the things that we need to kind of just get done.

00:04:33 Michelle Cruz

It is.

00:04:40 Dr Cristina Cavezza

And there's not a lot of slowing down and holding space which can.

00:04:43 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Be so important.

00:04:45 Michelle Cruz

And and that's also a big struggle for folks that are already entering, like, for instance, the hospital system where they could be othered maybe they don't fit the cookie cutter world of the expectant mother and they need extra supports. And so. But someone that coming in that's maybe, you know, fat or they are black or they have autism or they have severe anxiety.

00:05:06 Michelle Cruz

They already feel like they don't belong in that space, and so I come in to support them and fill the gaps.

00:05:13 Michelle Cruz

And even sometimes be like a translator, like an international medical translator taking information from what the doctors and nurses are saying, or the providers and making it palatable and understanding, adding some love and emotion to it. So my clients can better support and make better choices for their birth and their parenting choices.

00:05:31 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah, that's wonderful. And when you were speaking, I was thinking actually, that there might be some listeners that are listening, thinking, OK, she said she was a doula, and I don't quite understand. I don't quite understand what that is or what a doula does. And I think you've you've started to highlight some of the things that you do and how you support families. But I wonder if you could tell us.

00:05:51 Dr Cristina Cavezza

How? What is? What does being a doula entail?

00:05:56 Michelle Cruz

So a doula is a non medical provider who provides support to people in all aspects of the reproductive journey. So everything from fertility support, birth and labor and as well as postpartum. But we're providing informational education, evidence based information we're providing information about what the hospital system is.

00:06:16 Michelle Cruz

Going to be like what it's like working with different kinds of providers. We will also provide non medical comfort techniques. So I may come in and help folks do different position movements to help them be more comfortable in their pregnancy or help them understand what's going to be happening in the steps that take place and different information like for instance if they are having an induction or caesarean.

00:06:36 Michelle Cruz

Kind of that bridging the gap between what just the provider is going to.

00:06:40 Michelle Cruz

Offer versus what the information that we may have to be go look for. And so I bring that research with me and give it. It's never offering my opinion. I do not offer my opinion. I continue to give information so my clients can make those choices. So it's those 3 pillars, emotional, informational and then also offering physical support. But all from a non medical point of view.

00:07:01 Michelle Cruz

So I'm not taking, you know, blood pressures or diagnosing anyone. I will refer all that to their correct provider, no matter who it's for. But I will be that supportive person that they may call and say, hey, I have a question about this or you know, I'm going to tell you what my experience today being non judgmental and supportive.

00:07:20 Michelle Cruz

And offering that space, especially where I'm at here in Austin, TX, it's a college town. There are.

00:07:25 Michelle Cruz

A lot of.

00:07:26 Michelle Cruz

Folks that have moved here from all around the world left families behind. They don't have that person to call anymore or they lost family during the the pandemic and they no longer have that sister or mother to call. And so they call me.

00:07:40 Michelle Cruz

Or WhatsApp me or whatever you know. However, we're communicating and let me know what's going on and then I can support them or say, you know, you're right, maybe you should call your provider or you know, maybe it is time to find a different provider. So offering them that option to have that conversation.

00:07:53 Michelle Cruz

And also uh, being there when they need it. Sometimes you just need a hand to hold in the laboring process. And I usually join families at active labor and all the way through until they have baby. And then I'm there for their first latch for the 1st 90 minutes to two hours and then a follow up visit within 24 hours or 48 hours after baby.

00:08:13 Michelle Cruz

Has uh been born.

00:08:14 Michelle Cruz

And reconnect to them with support if they need more support. I thankfully, in a network of amazing other postpartum doulas, so I'm able to refer them for that just because my focus is on such high needs clients that I'm able to give them that and then I refer them to folks that can give them more support postpartum. But it is truly and.

00:08:34 Michelle Cruz

More than anything, connecting with someone.

00:08:37 Michelle Cruz

And making sure that they their needs are.

00:08:38 Michelle Cruz

Met and a big thing too, about being a doula is continuity of care.

00:08:43 Michelle Cruz

We're with them.

00:08:44 Michelle Cruz

Before Baby is born and we're providing education with them, you know about the birth process, about what happens, there's lots of things that happen in birth that no one tells you about. Like for instance, like Apgar scores. You know, their parents.

00:08:58 Michelle Cruz

Pulse and respiration. No one is telling you what what are these numbers they are calling out.

00:09:02 Michelle Cruz

We're letting them know in advance of things that may happen, so they're not caught off guard, so it's reducing a lot of stress, reducing a lot of fear in birth because we discussed things prenatally or with them during the birth process and postpartum. I I love it. It's literally my my dream job. I eat, breathe and sleep birth all day.

00:09:22 Dr Cristina Cavezza

And I can see your excitement with it. How did you get into this type of work? What you know, fascinated you about it or interested you?

00:09:30 Michelle Cruz

So I have always had endometriosis and so I've always been interested in reproductive workings of internal reproductive organs and things, and I knew that there I wanted to do something, but I wanted to do non medical. So I had my oldest in 2013 so long ago and it was a traumatic birth and.

00:09:51 Michelle Cruz

Unfortunately, I had a coerced caesarean and then when I got pregnant with my twins, I had someone donate postpartum care to me overnight postpartum

00:10:00 Michelle Cruz

care and I remember sitting with her in the middle of the night, 2:00 in the morning, being like, how did you get here? And hearing her tell me her story of being a nanny and she wanted to do more work for families who are having, you know, fresh babies. And she had worked with twins herself and helped me with my twins. And then I left that conversation and asked my sister. She had had the same thought.

00:10:20 Michelle Cruz

Have wanted to do something different or career change and we were like, well, what do we like? So we just wrote down, OK, we like babies. We like moms. We like working with families. We like education.

00:10:30 Michelle Cruz

And we like helping people, you know, to meet their needs or like, OK, what is this? I'm like, and I told about my conversation with my postpartum doula. She goes, why don't we do this? Let's just do 

00:10:39 Speaker 3

That let's try.

00:10:40 Michelle Cruz

It out and I was like, oh, I don't know. And then she's like, just trust me. Let's do some research. Let's see if we can do this, if it makes sense. And so.

00:10:47 Michelle Cruz

We end up finding a training out of Canada that we loved.

00:10:50 Michelle Cruz

Called Bebo Mia, and it was a wonderful training. It was very in-depth, lots of information. It was so much more than just like a A, you know, 4 hour class it.

00:10:59 Michelle Cruz

Was very in.

00:11:00 Michelle Cruz

Depth and concise, but also the point where we knew we were going to make change.

00:11:06 Michelle Cruz

And so I took that class and I was like, this is my life. This is what I want to do. I want to be there to help change a whole family because in my mind if I helped one family, I'm helping a whole community because they're going to go tell their friends and their family. Oh, you know what my doula taught me that information here or here is this link my doula sent me this book I read.

00:11:26 Michelle Cruz

And it helped me to, you know, survive the first two years or helped me to maintain whatever.

00:11:32 Michelle Cruz

goal it is, and I've seen that happen with the families I've worked with is little changes, little things like saying, hey, you know what I think we do want an hour alone and then the mom been like, I can actually tell someone, leave me alone. Well, I guess you can. You just had your babies. Like you don't have to entertain people. Your newly postpartum. So giving.

00:11:52 Michelle Cruz

People their power back, I think, is one of my the best parts of being a 

00:11:56 Michelle Cruz

doula and I'm so thankful that I have this opportunity and I've been able to help so many families in the Austin area to have support and then being able to also teach doulas as well has been great to have them go on internationally and help new families all around the world to be able to connect and find some support. And so that's been a beautiful blessing.

00:12:16 Michelle Cruz

Of being a part of this as being a doula trainer and helping folks

00:12:20 Michelle Cruz

Helping new baby doulas to be able to support families so it's it's been a whirlwind the last five years and it's been the best thing I possibly could have asked for cause I get to teach. I get to talk and I get to help people and they get to, you know, actually see change with just little things like taking a moment and saying, OK, is this a choice for me or is this a choice for everybody?

00:12:40 Michelle Cruz

Oh, it's a choice for everybody. Maybe I won't do it. Maybe I will do it. So little things like that give them their ability to look inside and hear their intuition. Is a lot of what doula work is.

00:12:50 Michelle Cruz

Getting people the tools so they can discern if they want to do that choice or they can just do whatever they want and tell everyone you know what? No thank you. But no, thank you. Power, you know, no is a complete sentence is so powerful in birth.

00:13:04 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yes. And everything you said there was amazing. It does sound really powerful and you know, as you were speaking, I was thinking because I know you're based in the States, you said it that you're based in Texas and where I'm positioned here currently in Australia.

00:13:17 Dr Cristina Cavezza

I know when it comes to multiple birth pregnancies, they're typically heavily monitored and I don't know of many multiple birth families that utilize doula services. And what I'm wondering what

00:13:31 Dr Cristina Cavezza

I wonder what it's like in your part of the world. Like, do you provide services for many multiple birth families? And if you do, do those services look different than the services that you might provide if the family is expecting one baby?

00:13:46 Michelle Cruz

So I do provide services for multiple parents here, and there are many parents reaching out for doula support here. There's been a big step back from the medicalization of a multiple birth. There are still families that are still following, you know, getting many scans and getting, you know, with the maternal fetal medicine doctor and different things.

00:14:06 Michelle Cruz

And that's fine. We always want folks to have the ability to reach out for care. But there is a little bit of difference between servicing a singleton family versus multiples. I do add two more actual conversations or we discuss like the what ifs of multiple births because.

00:14:22 Michelle Cruz

It can be different. There's more education and supportive, and I also want multiple parents to have the skills to know that they can ask for help of the community and of myself. And I think that alone is hard for folks to say. I need help and I think that's challenging. So I do see their folks coming in and wanting.

00:14:42 Michelle Cruz

Wanting all of the all the bells and whistles they want the doula, they want the midwife, they want the OB. They want the MFM. They want all of it. And that's totally fine. And then their folks are like I'm birthing at home. I'm birthing at home. I want a midwife. I'm having twins, and there's been a resurgence and more and more twin families birthing at home with midwives.

00:15:02 Michelle Cruz

Which I think is a wonderful thing, and that's of course to say like these are midwives are births that are, you know, non complicated, there's no they've been scanned, they've been vetted, that there's verification that nothing, nothing awry. And so there's that piece of it where folks who could get nervous and go like what do you mean birthing at home and not.

00:15:20 Michelle Cruz

Having a hospital birth and not giving birth in an OR.

00:15:23 Michelle Cruz

That's their choice. And so we let them have the choice. I am not going to dictate someone's birth choices. I will inform them that their options.

00:15:30 Michelle Cruz

100% of what their options could be, and that the fact that each option has its own variable for what could happen. And so with folks that want to birth at home, I said that's very well you wanna birth at home. But keep in mind here are the risks of doing that. Here are the risks of of not doing that. And I think that's empowering for parents because they can make those choices and know hey, I do have a choice.

00:15:50 Michelle Cruz

I can make a decision about what I want to do.

00:15:53 Michelle Cruz

It was funny. Last winter I was actually talking to a client today. Last winter, there was so many babies born last winter. It was a back up at the hospitals. It was this insane boom and there was at least one twin mom I heard of another one of my doula friends who was scheduled for a Caesarian. It was her first, her first babies. Because the first caesarian.

00:16:13 Michelle Cruz

And they were backed up. There were so many babies giving birth, they had. They were pushing Caesarians back 2, two or three days, she ended up giving birth at home.

00:16:23 Michelle Cruz

With the EMS team, she went into spontaneous labor waiting for her cesarean and had both babies at home with the the emergency services team and everyone was like baffled by it because, like, you have to have a cesarean. But things like that happen, you know, like she was 40 weeks. Babies are great. She's doing wonderful.

00:16:42 Michelle Cruz

I actually just saw her a couple of months ago at a, you know, moms meet up. We have here in town, but it's just crazy how those these things are happening.

00:16:49 Michelle Cruz

Or this dismissal you have to have babies in the OR, and it's very strict. I don't know if it's necessarily the westernization of birth, but this, you know, you have twins. You're going to have a vaginal delivery. It's going to be in the OR or it's going to be in the room adjacent to it. It's going to be in, in a certain theater. And that's I've seen some folks of this almost this fear.

00:17:10 Michelle Cruz

Of what could happen?

00:17:11 Michelle Cruz

But I like to give parents their power back when I work with them, though you have choices you can make. You can make requests of them. You can make requests for the midwife to round on you while you're in labor to have them come and check in on you. So giving them their power, give them their options is important more so than singletons because.

00:17:31 Michelle Cruz

A lot of times it's like, oh, you have twins. Sorry. Bye.

00:17:35 Michelle Cruz

They just doctors and providers can just say I'm not working with you and I and that's just devastating to a, to a birther to be like, what do you mean you're not working with me? Like I I waited two weeks for this appointment and now you're saying is I have twins. You won't help me. So giving them the options is key. I know that the medical system being very different.

00:17:55 Michelle Cruz

Here versus in Australia, but there's still this this fear of twins and like it's 2013, 2014, 2000. You know, this time has flown. We're not where we were 15/20

00:18:08 Michelle Cruz

Years ago, there was much more higher imaging. There's much better testings for blood exams and there's lots of things that can be determined way before we get to labor to see what's going on and how we can support babies when they do arrive. So I like to make sure all the parents have have information.

00:18:27 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah, I think that what's so important, what I've taken from that is that choice and not just the perception of, like, perceiving that you have choice but actually feeling like you really do have choices. I've spoken with a lot of.

00:18:44 Dr Cristina Cavezza

 multiple birth parents here in Australia and I one of the themes that I often hear is as soon as they found out they were having twins or triplets, it was like.

00:18:55 Dr Cristina Cavezza

The choices became much narrower.

00:18:58 Dr Cristina Cavezza

In terms of what they could expect for the birth and post birth, like the idea of a home birth for twins and triplets here in Australia anyway, in my experience like there may may be people that have home births, but I I rarely hear that.

00:19:17 Dr Cristina Cavezza

And I think that there are some people that have that in their mind. That's what they would have liked. That's what they were aiming for. And then they find out they're having multiples and they.

00:19:27 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Get told by the professionals that oh well that it's just too risky now.

00:19:33 Michelle Cruz

Yeah, that that happens. Unfortunately, I think it it depends at least here in the States and even in Texas what kind of midwife you.

00:19:40 Michelle Cruz

Have um, and if you're seeing also OB care as well, so I know there's a couple midwives in Texas that will do twin deliveries at home if the person also is getting regular visits from an OB's office just to verify things and to have that extra care team in case there is a transfer because even in a in a Singleton home birth, there's always a risk of a transfer to hospital.

00:20:01 Michelle Cruz

And that's just the reality of birth. It's it's we can't always guarantee what's going to happen. So having that knowledge and those relationships already built I think adds a protective layer to parents. Yeah, giving them the choices, even if they do have to have an in hospital

00:20:16 Michelle Cruz

birth, letting them know that birth could look like giving them their their power. To say you know what I want everybody that comes in the room to introduce themselves to me and to keep the conversation about me and about my babies and not about, you know, their golf practice they went to or what their appointment is going to be or the client in the next room over. So giving parents those.

00:20:36 Michelle Cruz

Ability to make choices, even if it doesn't mean they can have a you know this fairy tale delivery is so important. I mean, that's why parents are reaching out for doula support is because.

00:20:48 Michelle Cruz

They are hearing that there's this extra person in the room that's watching what's going on and protecting over them and letting them know, like, hey, I can see what's happening to you. You look upset. What's wrong? Whereas their partner or husband or wife may not see that information, but we, as as birth keepers, some of us.

00:21:08 Michelle Cruz

Some of us say can see that change in their face, or that emotional shift where they can say something's different and we can come into them and say, do you know, do you need a minute to cry?

00:21:17 Michelle Cruz

Like, do you want to hold your hand? Are you excited about something or whatever it could possibly be bringing them into the space because birth as hard as it is, it's and then adding that it's multiples and if there's anything else going on with babies or with pregnancy, we want to have that extra person there to kind of keep you grounded in that space, keep you connected.

00:21:38 Michelle Cruz

And that's the beauty of birth work. Is that extra person there to bring you into the space. You can remember those precious moments.

00:21:46 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah. And I see it as also being that independent person that can hold that perspective and can hold the space because when it's your partner or another loved one, they're going through their own emotion and experience. They might not be able to see clearly kind of what's happening. And I've often heard from partners where they say, you know, I really wanted to say something, but I didn't know how.

00:22:08 Dr Cristina Cavezza

I didn't know how to speak up to the doctors or I didn't know I had that the right to do so. Whereas I see your role and I could be wrong, but I almost see your role as that bridge between.

00:22:18 Dr Cristina Cavezza

The medical professionals, if you like or some of the other professionals and.

00:22:23 Dr Cristina Cavezza

The the mother or the expectant parents.

00:22:27 Michelle Cruz

Yeah, I often use this phrase when I'm speaking in a room with the doctors and nurses and the parents. I'll look at the parents say, didn't you say insert here?

00:22:37 Speaker 3

And they'll say, oh, he did.

00:22:38 Michelle Cruz

Say whatever it was. So like for instance, I had a birth a couple of weeks ago and there was the concern of infection because the waters have been ruptured. So say, weren't you concerned about her temperature?

00:22:48 Michelle Cruz

A few minutes ago.

00:22:49 Michelle Cruz

That's not me saying, hey, doc, you need to check the temperature. That's me referring back to Dad and Dad's. Like you were right. You know, 20 minutes ago.

00:22:57 Michelle Cruz

We did feel there was a risk because they need that power even.

00:23:00 Michelle Cruz

And my clients, who of themselves are educated and supported and you know, may have affluent status. They still sometimes get fearful of doctors and don't know what to say. And so I'll bridge that gap and help them find the words or knowing the right time is to speak up and say, hey, you know what, you can always pull the doctor into the hallway and ask some questions.

00:23:21 Michelle Cruz

You have that right to ask questions and say, can you just clarify for me again or could you explain it? Again, do you have a link about that research giving them the chance to connect and then even then I will put myself out of the equation and make sure that the partners are connecting, make sure that the parents are coming to get together because sometimes they don't know to say to each other.

00:23:40 Michelle Cruz

They don't know what the moments are, so I have a habit of of grabbing a dad and saying OK, now is the time. I want you to give her a kiss on the cheek, on the forehead and give her a hug. Tell her why you love her. I'm going to step out for a few minutes. You have some privacy because I want their faces to remember each other. I don't remember my face like I want to be like, you know, the the chair in the room. That was just there.

00:24:01 Michelle Cruz

I want them to remember each other's power and each other's love for each other, no matter who it is, so they can have that connection and they have more courage to speak up when something happens, and even just to speak up in general to tell doctor, you know, I thank you for being a part of our.

00:24:16 Michelle Cruz

birth, even that sometimes feels like a large task because they don't know how to approach them.

00:24:22 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Hi there. Fierce Kind Mama. Sorry to interrupt the discussion, but I have something to share with you that I know you're

00:24:28 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Going to love.

00:24:29 Dr Cristina Cavezza

We're often told that parenting can be hard, and whether you're a soon to be or current parent of multiples, there is going to come a time when you will probably feel stressed, overwhelmed.

00:24:40 Dr Cristina Cavezza

or even worried about the future.

00:24:43 Dr Cristina Cavezza

That's why I've developed a free guide for parents, just like you with my 5 top tips for handling stress and overwhelm. You can download it now from my website fiercekindmama.com. 

Yeah. And in your experience, do you think that multiple birth parents in particular need more support?

00:25:04 Michelle Cruz

I feel like.

00:25:04 Michelle Cruz

There's two groups. There's the group, that is, we don't know if you hear this, the type A parent.

00:25:09 Michelle Cruz

That becomes multiples.

00:25:11 Michelle Cruz

They're like they've got the world on their shoulders. They can do all.

00:25:13 Michelle Cruz

Kinds of things.

00:25:15 Michelle Cruz

And there's this other group that's like, I've got twins. I'm so overwhelmed. I don't know.

00:25:19 Michelle Cruz

What to say?

00:25:20 Michelle Cruz

And I will sometimes give them like the words and say, here's what you could say.

00:25:24 Michelle Cruz

Here are the questions. So one of the things I provide is a very in-depth prenatal education and so on one of the pages that.

00:25:31 Michelle Cruz

Has a list of questions.

00:25:33 Michelle Cruz

So I'll say, hey, remember that list? You can ask these questions of doctor whenever a you know, a medical choice comes.

00:25:38 Michelle Cruz

Up and Oh yeah, the list list and they'll start asking questions and then they'll. Ohh yeah. Thank you. And I always say too, take the list wherever you like. You can ask these questions of anybody say is this relevant? Is this important? Are you telling this information for me or you telling it for everybody?

00:25:53 Michelle Cruz

Or can I have 5 more minutes to think about it? And those few questions you can get a lot of information from Doctor, they could say oh, actually this is specialized information just for you because of the kind of twins you're having or because this prior health issue you've you've experienced or no I offer this to everybody. If it's everyone gets this and then they can decide, OK, am I going to follow with that

00:26:12 Michelle Cruz

Choice? Or am I gonna do something else but the parents that know what they want to do, and they have that that type A like, yes, I'm, you know, I have to sometimes tell them you don't have to.

00:26:20 Michelle Cruz

Tell doctor everything.

00:26:22 Michelle Cruz

You can take it back. You don't have to give them all of your power because you're going to need it. When the babies come so kind of help them to soften their parenthood and soften their pregnancy.

00:26:32 Michelle Cruz

Not to the point where they are, you know, walked over, but the point where they can feel more of that nurture and sometimes they haven't been nurtured and so they need that care and support. And so I come in almost as like that big sister role like, hey, let me take care of you.

00:26:46 Michelle Cruz

This is the time for you to rest. This is the.

00:26:48 Michelle Cruz

Time for you.

00:26:49 Michelle Cruz

To be heard. And you're not having to take.

00:26:51 Michelle Cruz

Care of anybody else but yourself, and we're going to care for you. And so I find that those two groups are who I usually end up working with is the folks that have a lot going on and folks are like, I don't know.

00:27:02 Michelle Cruz

What to do? I'm a little confused.

00:27:05 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah. Right. And yeah, when you were speaking, I was thinking how the family is actually find you like, is this I'm. I'm assuming that this is a private service that it's you're not attached necessarily to a hospital and you're not part of like the public system. So how do families go, you know? Yeah, I want a doula. And I want to find someone. How do they find you?

00:27:25 Michelle Cruz

So a lot of people find me from social media. I'm on TikTok and Instagram and all those places. And then there's a lot of folks that have found me from parent groups in my early days of doing doula work. I did gift out services to parents that maybe had lost income or they had lost housing.

00:27:45 Michelle Cruz

And or they just needed extra pair of hands during their labor because of different things.

00:27:49 Michelle Cruz

And so those mothers and parents actually wrote about their experiences, and local mom groups and parenting groups. So I do get some referrals from there. But lately I am. Right now I'm the President of the.

00:28:02 Michelle Cruz

Central Texas Doula

00:28:03 Michelle Cruz

Association and so I do get folks that come and get referrals from there. It's a professional organization of other doulas.

00:28:10 Michelle Cruz

That do birth and postpartum work here in town kind encompasses like the entire area. So not just Austin, but the smaller towns surrounding.

00:28:18 Michelle Cruz

And they will see me on the resource and see that I do multiple support and call me from there. And I do love when I find someone that just like, oh, I just happened to find you on Instagram. I was just scrolling and saw your face and.

00:28:28 Michelle Cruz

Thought you were.

00:28:29 Michelle Cruz

Cool. And I was like, oh, nice. So there is that. So there's some of that, but a lot of it's from social media people just looking for doula support and reading other mothers and parents.

00:28:39 Michelle Cruz

Experiences and then reaching out and that's how the majority of my clients have found me. A few have been, you know, word of mouth direct friend to friend but most from social media.

00:28:49 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah, but it sounds like it's the work that you do and the advocacy as well. The social justice work that it sounds like you're doing too. That is a real appeal and I'd love to touch on that. But before we go there, I was wondering, I know you've you've mentioned that your mother, you've mentioned that you have twins. I know your mother of actually three children.

00:29:08 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Would you be willing to share with us a bit about your own multiple birth journey, what that looked like, whether you had plans in place for the pregnancy and post birth, and how those panned out? I wonder if you could just walk us through how you managed in those early days and and throughout the pregnancy and birthing experience.

00:29:25 Michelle Cruz

Sure. I always wanted twins like always, and I've always been some of that, like fairly in tune with my body. Maybe it's my autism, maybe.

00:29:34 Michelle Cruz

It's not just know what's.

00:29:36 Michelle Cruz

Going on in my body, but I had my my oldest and I breastfed him for almost three years and then like, OK, we're going, I'm going to, I'm going to wean.

00:29:46 Michelle Cruz

So we did the long process of weaning and it's we're gonna we're gonna wean he's 3 this is the perfect time to just take a break.

00:29:52 Michelle Cruz

I have my body back and then about six weeks. Then my husband's like, well, let's just try another baby. Like for one month. You know, what's the hurt? The hurt is I got pregnant with twins in that one month. So I went from from breast feeding my oldest to like one, you know, six weeks a month of nothing and then getting pregnant with twins.

00:30:12 Michelle Cruz

And I had this very vivid dream that I was coming home carrying two car seats.

00:30:17 Michelle Cruz

And I woke up and I was like, I'm pregnant. I know I'm pregnant, and I know it's twins. And so I took a test. I hadn't even missed my period yet, and it was so dark. It was so dark. And so I remember going and telling my husband, and I was like, I think it's twins. And he was like, no way. I'm like, I guarantee you it's twins. I was like this pregnancy test.

00:30:38 Michelle Cruz

Is so dark the color changed so fast.

00:30:41 Michelle Cruz

It's twins, and so we go to the six week checkup because I like, advocated please, I would like to have it. No, no, just like it's like no, it's very common in the United States for folks, folks to wait to 8-9 weeks, almost 10 weeks for a scan if.

00:30:54 Michelle Cruz

They even can get.

00:30:55 Michelle Cruz

A scan. Most folks don't even have a scan until 20 weeks. They just do a heartbeat check with the Doppler and like some.

00:31:02 Michelle Cruz

Blood to check HCG. But I was like, no. I need a scan, please. Because I know that there is a.

00:31:08 Michelle Cruz

Difference in care?

00:31:10 Michelle Cruz

You know, depending on what kind of twins you have. And so I was like, please.

00:31:12 Michelle Cruz

Please, please and the tech was like OK, fine. You know? Sure. Whatever. Whatever, lady. And so she checks. She said OK. And she goes. Oh, oh, OK. I'm like, what do you mean? She goes. There's a second baby here and.

00:31:25 Michelle Cruz

It's like. Mm-hmm.

00:31:26 Michelle Cruz

She's expecting us to be, like, shocked and surprised when her husband goes. Nah, we already knew we already knew.

00:31:34 Michelle Cruz

You already knew it's your first scan. I was like I had a really strong intuition feeling, you know that I had twins and I was. I was twins. So I I had the same doctor delivered my oldest, even though she was not the kindest Dr.

00:31:50 Michelle Cruz

And then at like my 16 week appointment, she comes into the room and she goes well, let's see who's alive today.

00:31:58 Michelle Cruz

And I said it's she, me. And I said, what do you what do you mean she was well, it's just you haven't reached viability yet. So we.

00:32:05 Michelle Cruz

Don't know and.

00:32:06 Michelle Cruz

I looked at her dead in the face and said how dare you tell that to me? Because if she said it to me, you know she said it to other people, you know she said it to other other mothers.

00:32:16 Michelle Cruz

And so, of course everybody, they were fine. Both twins were there A&B, no big deal. Nothing had changed. They were looking great and we left the room. And of course I'm in tears and my husband's like, we'll never see her again. He was like, we'll never set foot in this office again. And I called around and I found a different doctor went to her. And she's like, maybe she's having an off day.

00:32:37 Michelle Cruz

And then I repeated what she said, she goes. That is not an off day.

00:32:40 Michelle Cruz

She's like there is no excuse for that kind of behaviour. She's like absolutely not. And I had a pretty uneventful pregnancy, you know. Of course, I.

00:32:48 Michelle Cruz

Had a three.

00:32:49 Michelle Cruz

Year old running around who had autism and we were struggling with different things with him and because of his birth and the way he had a I had a second incision on my uterus. I had to have a scheduled C.

00:33:00 Michelle Cruz

section had a couple of false labours here and there at 30 weeks, but thankfully because I'm really close to a well established hospital is able to get medication to stop my labor. So I was able to deliver all the way until 38 and seven almost 39/40 weeks almost and I had a Caesarean and that went.

00:33:21 Michelle Cruz

Went well. The only thing that happened, well, the babies were fine is because of my endometriosis and the delivered previous delivery. I had scar tissue that formed, had my uterus had attached to my abdominal.

00:33:33 Michelle Cruz

wall so it actually end up being a 2 hour cesarean because the doctor had to stop everything she was doing when she got past the fascia to separate my uterus from my abdominal wall because the scar tissue. So there was that. And that's also why I'm having a hysterectomy in a couple weeks because.

00:33:53 Michelle Cruz

my endometriosis has ravaged my body.

00:33:56 Michelle Cruz

But the best part about all of this postpartum is that doula, that postpartum doula I had came to the hospital with me because unfortunately, my husband got food poisoning like the day before

 I had the twins, and he was so sick. But she came to the hospital with me. She helped me shower. She helped me get.

00:34:15 Michelle Cruz

Out of bed.

00:34:16 Michelle Cruz

She brought babies to me to to feed. She stayed up with me for hours and her being there, I say, was the best choice I ever made because she came to my.

00:34:26 Michelle Cruz

House three days a week for the first like 16 weeks of life, and it was the best thing I've ever did. She came a couple of times after that, but mostly those first 16 weeks and she came like 8:00 PM till like four or five in the morning. Then she would go. But it was great because we could put our oldest to bed. She'd help if I needed to.

00:34:46 Michelle Cruz

Eat or shower help. Get the babies ready for their for their bedtime feed. Feed them and.

00:34:52 Michelle Cruz

She was.

00:34:52 Michelle Cruz

Also on board with our nurture plan with responding to babies cues being there for them and not letting them cry it out or anything like that. We were doing lots of nurture care where we were neurological, biological, infant sleep where we're responding to infants brains as they grow.

00:35:09 Michelle Cruz

A lots of science in this house and so.

00:35:11 Michelle Cruz

It was wonderful.

00:35:12 Michelle Cruz

Because you know other folks like, oh, they're fine. I'm like, no, please respond. And so she did not fight us on that, which was so helpful. But so many hours of her coming and being watching over them, I think helped with my postpartum anxiety to know that there was someone who was on my side, like on my team, to be there. And then.

00:35:33 Michelle Cruz

And then on it was like, well, once she left, I was like, OK, I guess we've just aged out of the doula system, because who's going to doulas? Their goal is to work themselves out of a job.

00:35:42 Michelle Cruz

Where the parents feel strong enough and supportive, but they don't need someone to come and help them. And I tell all my my postpartum clients, Singleton and especially especially multiples to have that doula list and have that person that can come and help them. It is not to be overnight, but her overnight care I think was helpful.

00:36:02 Michelle Cruz

To my mental health, to my physical healing from the cesarean, you know, helping with my oldest, who had autism and just knowing that her care was there, and that if I if I woke up crying in the middle of the night, I could go talk to her and.

00:36:15 Michelle Cruz

Not feel alone. It was.

00:36:17 Michelle Cruz

Was the best thing. So our our journey is was exciting and fun. We love having the twins. They're truly amazing. Our oldest is Eli. The twins are Estelle and Ender and.

00:36:29 Speaker 3

They are all.

00:36:30 Michelle Cruz

Such unique individual people. Now the one thing that does come.

00:36:33 Michelle Cruz

Up with my.

00:36:34 Michelle Cruz

Birth that is different is because I am biracial.

00:36:37 Michelle Cruz

Black and white, my husband's white and Hispanic, and the early days of the twins. My my oldest is very dark skinned. He looks he looks like he is, you know, fully.

00:36:48 Michelle Cruz

Black. But my twins are very fair. They have blonde hair, they have blue eyes, and many times I was called the nanny, pushing the stroller in the store. Ohh, are you the nanny? Ohh, this mom must be so overjoyed. How beautiful her twins are. And I'd say these are my twins.

00:37:08 Michelle Cruz

No, I'm like yes, genetics are wild, you know.

00:37:14 Michelle Cruz

But that was countless times where folks would think that I wasn't their mother. No joke. I was in the Public Library. We went cause we're trying to get the house, you know, trying out the house, trying to manage from go to the library for the weekend, you know, for a couple of hours, I'm nursing one of my twins. I'm nursing one of the twins. Lady comes up. Ohh. You're such a nice nanny.

00:37:34 Speaker 3

I'm like nanny nursing a baby, we don't do wet nursing anymore. It's not the 19fifties, you know.

00:37:44 Michelle Cruz

Most bonker thing ever, but that was the biggest. Like, yeah.

00:37:48 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Were you

00:37:50 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah. Were you offended by those comments? Like, I mean I.

00:37:52 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Oh wonder.

00:37:52 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Can imagine being really offended.

00:37:53 Michelle Cruz

Yeah. Like, listen, I was I.

00:37:58 Michelle Cruz

Because we're in public, you know, full of full of anger. But I'm also trying to model for my my oldest and for myself. But you don't have to respond with hate. You know, they're they're coming from a place of bigotry, of confusion. And sometimes they're trying to get under your skin. And I just look, I'm like.

00:38:17 Michelle Cruz

Are you

00:38:18 Michelle Cruz

Kidding me?

00:38:19 Michelle Cruz

Like, I'm surprised you felt comfortable to say that out loud and it wasn't like it was a private conversation. It was a loud statement, the library statement it was loud, like we were in the children's section. There's other parents and I live in a very multicultural, diverse area with like half libraries and like Vietnamese or Spanish. Like, this isn't just like a very

00:38:39 Michelle Cruz

You know, 1,1 frame of families, very diverse.

00:38:43 Michelle Cruz

And with the the.

00:38:45 Michelle Cruz

The look on the face like are you kidding me?

00:38:46 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah.

00:38:48 Michelle Cruz

It it's just, it's crazy and I, of course that comes to with being married to someone who is not the same race as me. I've had folks many times say, oh, y'all.

00:38:56 Michelle Cruz

Together I'm like.

00:38:58 Michelle Cruz

Of course, I just was kissing him like he had to.

00:39:01 Michelle Cruz

Pay for the bill. 

00:39:03 Michelle Cruz

Like I kind of was used to it. Of course, my parents being mixed race, my mom being white, my dad being black used to this confusion of like, you know, racial ambiguity.

00:39:14 Michelle Cruz

not ambidextrous. I'm sorry. I mean, you know what I mean. It's like you can't tell who they are. You know, they try to use these snide questions. And of course, being in the South and South of the US people gonna.

00:39:26 Michelle Cruz

Say stuff, they're.

00:39:27 Michelle Cruz

Going to get.

00:39:28 Michelle Cruz

Their little their little twang. And they're.

00:39:29 Michelle Cruz

Going to say excuse.

00:39:30 Michelle Cruz

Me. Are you the mother of these babies?

00:39:35 Michelle Cruz

Yes, I am. I prefer that question. Then they're like saying I'm a nanny or that I'm like the babysitter or like, the best friend.

00:39:44 Michelle Cruz

So but it happened. So that's the biggest thing. And now the twins are older. They can.

00:39:48 Michelle Cruz

Say that's my mom.

00:39:50 Michelle Cruz

Or you know that she's my mother. They let people have it and I can't hold them back. I can't hold them back cuz they are rambunctious and loud like I am, especially my daughter. She will tell someone.

00:40:02 Dr Cristina Cavezza

But I can, you know.

00:40:02 Dr Cristina Cavezza

I can see from those experiences.

00:40:04 Dr Cristina Cavezza

'Cause, I know you. You know you've described yourself as an advocate for people identifying as fat as well as black, indigenous, or as people of color. And I can see even from those experiences why you need to be, why someone would need to advocate for.

00:40:21 Dr Cristina Cavezza

People who might what we might call not mainstream, if you like or not. The the majority. Yeah. So can you share with us why this is such an important work? What are the unique struggles or challenges that you face that individuals that fall into any of these categories face what what are some of their struggles?

00:40:44 Michelle Cruz

I think the biggest thing, especially with birth and even more so with multiples is this assumption that the person is is ignorant or uneducated, or they may not have the ability to get the educational information and that is so frustrating when it comes to birth. And so that's a huge reason why I became a doula is because I've watched black moms.

00:41:05 Michelle Cruz

be treated like children when they're laboring and be like, excuse me, could you look at me? Can you give me eye contact? Like, why does someone in labor have to give you eye contact?

00:41:14 Michelle Cruz

And I've worked with them and seen doctors and nurses treat these, these women, these humans, as if they're worthless. And so it's a huge reason why, like the the two lenses come together, the reproductive justice and, you know, cultural competency is letting folks know, like, you have the right to be treated as an adult, as a human being.

00:41:34 Michelle Cruz

You have the right to stand up when you feel ignored, and there's a sheer number of of deaths of black women specifically who have gone into hospitals.

00:41:47 Michelle Cruz

Expecting to come home and not coming home, they're not making it home because their pain was ignored, their bleeding was ignored. You know their prior health history was ignored. There's countless stories of women who have gone into that space and been completely ignored. There's a really good documentary called Aftershock. That documents

00:42:07 Michelle Cruz

The birth of two babies whose mothers passed away, and even more recently that I have a dear friend in Brooklyn who works with a hospital system, they they just had a a death this last week of another one young woman who went into the.

00:42:21 Michelle Cruz

Hospital and should have

00:42:23 Michelle Cruz

Come home. And so this is happening so many times where you.

00:42:27 Michelle Cruz

Know we've there's a.

00:42:28 Michelle Cruz

One of the births to talk about in the documentary, a woman who had a caesarean and she had a a bladder neck and continued to bleed.

00:42:37 Michelle Cruz

Out and her husband's pleading for her help. He's accomplished person. She's a like a lawyer. these are well educated adults with, you know, affluent jobs who are losing their lives, they say.

00:42:50 Michelle Cruz

The statistic runs that a white female who is a high school dropout is safer.

00:42:58 Michelle Cruz

To come home from birth, then a educated, you know, employed.

00:43:05 Michelle Cruz

Black woman.

00:43:07 Michelle Cruz

So there's the chance of of death is higher with more education.

00:43:12 Speaker 3

Than with less.

00:43:14 Michelle Cruz

Which is devastating, and so, you know, they people try to spin it and say, oh, well, it's it's actually not this, it's genetics, it is not genetics, it's human error and it is bias. It is racial bias.

00:43:14 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yes.

00:43:27 Michelle Cruz

I wanted to call it what it is and not sweep it under the rug, you know, call a spade a spade and so a lot of what I do is giving part.

00:43:35 Michelle Cruz

This the words and the support and so a lot of my clients, especially in the last two years, have been mothers who are not from the United States or if they're from the United States, they have a background in there, you know that BIPOC that black indigenous person of color. And so that's the primarily that group. And then of course, I love working with fat moms because it's a whole layer of.

00:43:55 Michelle Cruz

A misogyny and stuff with when you're when you're not, you know you're not a  straight sized person being a plus size person is myself. You know being a size 26 in American sizing you know over 300 lbs. So automatically they look at me like Oh my God she doesn't eat right. She's obviously lazy. Laziness is a comment towards being.

00:44:12 Michelle Cruz

Black and she's ignorant and then adds to the fact that, like, maybe I'm not dressing appropriately. Maybe I'm talking little fast, they'll say, oh, you're a drug seeker. I'm like, no, I'm not a drug seeker. I'm.

00:44:23 Michelle Cruz

Here with my client.

00:44:24 Michelle Cruz

You know I'm not, you know, so there's lots of things where I come in to feel that and or shield my clients from it.

00:44:33 Michelle Cruz

To say like, oh, oh, you're not gonna talk about that? No, thank you. Or we'll. I'll dismiss it or someone calls. Comes into the room. So it's.

00:44:39 Michelle Cruz

And then, you know, young girl, little girl are, you know, pet names, that's a very southern thing to do to try to, to almost take someone's age from them and make them as a child when.

00:44:51 Michelle Cruz

They're not, they're.

00:44:52 Michelle Cruz

Full grown adult with a mortgage and two bachelor  degrees, you know, like, treat them with respect, please.

00:44:59 Michelle Cruz

Or they're actually doctors. You know, they're being dismissed. And so it's so important to give people.

00:45:05 Michelle Cruz

Their power back.

00:45:07 Michelle Cruz

Know that they're up against a system that was not designed to protect them is huge, and there's been a an amazing amount of new folks coming and becoming midwives or becoming, you know, labor and delivery nurses with the desire to protect more people. And one of the organizations I just started working with.

00:45:28 Michelle Cruz

Is a national perinatal task force. We're working to provide safe spots.

00:45:33 Michelle Cruz

So there is.

00:45:34 Michelle Cruz

This viewpoint, called a maternal toxic zone where an area where there's been a certain number of deaths where hospitals are not providing care to BIPOC individuals and they're providing support to help those folks in those areas get care from people.

00:45:53 Michelle Cruz

Like myself and other providers that are culturally competent, safe, and are going to protect them and not turn them away because there's a lot of issues of, well, um. We're just full up on clients, you know, or we can't take you on as a patient.

00:46:07 Michelle Cruz

Or immediately said that someone is using, you know, federal aid for insurance.  Oh sorry, we.

00:46:13 Michelle Cruz

Don't take you anymore.

00:46:14 Michelle Cruz

When I'm like you took them two weeks ago, but you saw the.

00:46:16 Michelle Cruz

Demographics and you said

00:46:17 Michelle Cruz

Well, I don't think I want my numbers to slip, so I'm not going to take you. So making sure people have advocacy and support to get care, to get quality care.

00:46:26 Michelle Cruz

And to make sure that they get their voices heard. So it's. I could talk on this topic probably for a couple of hours, but it's just important to know if you're curious about this, look at the hospital statistics.

00:46:36 Michelle Cruz

Look at the provider statistics. If it's not public, there's no hurt to call and ask. There's a hurt to, you know, hey, how many clients they take on that are indigenous? Does this person speak Spanish? Does this person speak this language? You know, how do they interact? Ask the nursing staff nurses.

00:46:51 Speaker 3

Will tell you.

00:46:52 Michelle Cruz

Oh yeah, you don't don't want this doctor.

00:46:54 Michelle Cruz

Or no, they're actually this or that.

00:46:56 Michelle Cruz

To that, so it can be helpful to have those tools and I think that's a huge reason why I'm in this space is to give people the tools I mentioned before, give them their power and then hold their space for them so they can feel protected when they go to have their babies.

00:47:11 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah, I think that's absolutely amazing and so needed. I think that and I heard one of the statistics and this is obviously coming out of the United States because I know the situation here in Australia might be different, but.

00:47:24 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Certainly here in Australia we have disparities for indigenous the indigenous populations, but in the States I was reading that it was two or three times higher for black and indigenous mothers as opposed to, you know, compared to white mothers for them to have pregnancy related mortality rates. You know, their rates are two to three times higher.

00:47:46 Dr Cristina Cavezza

I know you touched on this a bit already, but what do you think needs to shift in order to address these maternal and infant health disparities?

00:47:56 Michelle Cruz

I think the biggest thing that could shift is education and implicit bias for everyone that's in the medical system. Everyone because it goes down from the person answering the phones all the way through to the the surgical tech in.

00:48:10 Michelle Cruz

The OR.

00:48:11 Michelle Cruz

Everyone needs to be re educated on all this information. It wasn't even that long ago that medical textbooks

00:48:18 Michelle Cruz

Were still teaching that black people did not feel as much pain as a white person.

00:48:23 Michelle Cruz

And and there are certain cultural things, like offer them mashed potatoes that they seem hungry. Like what? Like what even is that? So there's lots of this entwined racial disparity that's entwined hatred that is not science based. It's not even close to protecting and caring for people.

00:48:43 Michelle Cruz

There was a number of people that moved to the states from other countries during the pandemic. They got pregnant and they.

00:48:50 Michelle Cruz

They left. They went back to Nigeria, they went back to the UK, they moved to other countries to have their babies. I I legit watched this person the day who was from the states they were living in Ireland. They went to Dubai to have their baby. They felt safer, literally immigrating to Dubai for six months to have their baby because the medical care.

00:49:11 Michelle Cruz

was better because they could get supportive care and be like cared for and watched after in the states. It's so much of a you know, pull a ticket, wait your number, get called 5 minutes with the doctor and

00:49:25 Michelle Cruz

You leave. It's not supportive of. Hey, you know, I keep having this pain in my side and when I pee, I see a little bit of blood. Can you help me? It's you're normal. You're fine. You're not. You have a fever. You're fine. Instead of like. No, actually. Something wrong with that person's blood or their kidneys. Like, let's investigate. There's less investigation. There's less questions being asked.

00:49:45 Michelle Cruz

It's such a short thing, so the education needs to be done, but patient care model needs to be reevaluated and it is imperative we do so because we're going to keep losing mothers. We're going to keep.

00:49:58 Michelle Cruz

having these children coming home with no moms. And the frustrating thing is there's been cases of dads trying to advocate for their their wife in labor or, you know, after the caesarean. And having security called on them, having the police called on them when they're just asking for fluids or pain medication.

00:50:17 Michelle Cruz

Because the nurses believe that they don't need it. Ohh you had some 7 hours ago. You're fine.

00:50:24 Michelle Cruz

Postpartum is supposed to hurt contractions. You don't need that an epidural. You're fine. The blood in your your your catheter is normal. It's OK if you're dizzy a little bit. No, it's not. They would never tell a white mom you're OK. They would say. Ohh sure. Let me go ahead and get the information. The voices are not.

00:50:44 Michelle Cruz

There's no power in them. The staff does not care, and this is happening all across the United States in all population zones. This isn't just located to like, you know, Brooklyn or Dallas, Houston, LA. This is happening all across the United States, not to mention the sheer number of maternal.

00:51:02 Michelle Cruz

Labour wards that have been closed recently. I know in Alabama alone, they lost three in the last month where some families are driving 2 1/2 hours.

00:51:13 Michelle Cruz

At, you know, on a highway just to get to L&D to have their babies.

00:51:18 Michelle Cruz

And so imagine that you already were driving 30-40 minutes because you live in a rural America and now you're driving 2 1/2 hours.

00:51:25 Michelle Cruz

To see a doctor and this is this is continuing to happen. And so it's a lot of, you know, medicalization, but also the profit they, they don't care, they don't care. And that's unfortunate. And that's the truth. And I I know for some this is a very heavy topic, it's it is challenging, but it is the reality.

00:51:27 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah. 

00:51:45 Michelle Cruz

We're facing right now and so even with my birth.

00:51:48 Michelle Cruz

With my twins and my my oldest, I went in with a medical directive. I went in with a legal document saying you're going to provide me this care. I have advocates listed. I have a medical, you know, provider listed that it knows of my health, my health information and what you're going to do.

00:52:04 Michelle Cruz

And not going

00:52:04 Michelle Cruz

To do and I for instance, even to protect my bleeding, I had a cell saver in the room.

00:52:08 Michelle Cruz

You know.

00:52:09 Michelle Cruz

That, you know, would that's a whole medical thing where they actually, like, suck up any blood that's lost, clean it and put it back into the body just to prevent there being any kind of risk brought in for my twin delivery. So things like that that I'm taking precaution because I know that there's a possibility of there being excess blood loss.

00:52:30 Michelle Cruz

Or other things you know, excess clotting. Did we have to use it? No. The team just stood there the whole time. But I was thankful that they were there to one more thing. So, like having that that information is is key. Like I said before, asking hospital systems calling the doctor's offices.

00:52:46 Michelle Cruz

Seeing who's safe getting on the Facebook groups and on discord and on TikTok, Googling your doctor reading the health reviews is like important no matter what healthcare system you're in. Like who'd?

00:52:58 Michelle Cruz

Like to see.

00:52:59 Michelle Cruz

What's their name?

00:53:00 Michelle Cruz

Let me look them up real quick.

00:53:02 Michelle Cruz

Because even if you can't choose, you can still determine what the care if it was.

00:53:06 Michelle Cruz

Adequate or not.

00:53:08 Michelle Cruz

But it's a it's a challenge. It is a huge challenge. And then that's just the layers of, you know, multiples in birth and race. You add anything else, any other buckets like housing issues or employment or, you know, previous health issues, then the list just gets, you know, more of of the stress that you have.

00:53:27 Michelle Cruz

To deal with.

00:53:28 Michelle Cruz

But it is. It is my thing to Add all of this in to protect people because everyone deserves to come home like everyone deserves to come home and have that that family unit be protected no matter what they look like, no matter how they identify, they deserve at the basic human right to hold their baby and come home.

00:53:47 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Yeah, yeah. That you know, I love that that basic human right. And I think it does start with you mentioned education. And you're right there I think absolutely education at all levels, the professionals, sure, the people working in the hospital, sure. But then even just the general public like raising awareness and you know that's why I started this podcast.

00:54:08 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Is also as a way to support parents of multiples to raise awareness

00:54:13 Dr Cristina Cavezza

About different issues that affect the multiple birth community, and I think it it's really incumbent upon all of us really to do that, you know is working in any kind of capacity with parents and families that we address some of the stuff that we are culturally competent that we challenge our own biases and assumptions.

00:54:33 Dr Cristina Cavezza

And that we we actively strive towards bettering the systems which it sounds like from the work that you're doing, you're you're really focused on that, which is absolutely amazing.

00:54:44 Michelle Cruz

It's it's one of my favorite things to do is to give someone support, give them their power back and let them know that they're heard, that they're nurtured and supported, and I'm with them for the whole the whole journey, even the weird diaper photos, you know.

00:54:56 Michelle Cruz

At six weeks and.

00:54:57 Michelle Cruz

Like what's going on?

00:54:58 Michelle Cruz

So that's I think that's the most.

00:55:00 Michelle Cruz

Beautiful thing about being a doula is knowing that you're with that family for life, and I've had the beauty of working with multiple families.

00:55:06 Michelle Cruz

In my journey, where they've had baby number.

00:55:08 Michelle Cruz

Two or three.

00:55:09 Michelle Cruz

And it's just a beautiful thing. It's just it literally is my dream job and I hope that I can inspire more folks to do this because it's very heart centered.

00:55:19 Michelle Cruz

And it's very nurture giving where you are helping someone in the precious, most tenderest moments of their life with their babies and with their family being started or growing depending on what's going on. And I I I love it. I love.

00:55:35 Michelle Cruz

It so much.

00:55:36 Dr Cristina Cavezza

I wonder if we could end the conversation with one piece of advice that you would give other parents navigating the multiple birth journey. What would you tell them?

00:55:48 Michelle Cruz

Flexibility. Flexibility is key. It's my favorite thing to talk about, and because you never know what's going to happen, so all the way from when you get the positive pregnancy test all the way till they're going off to college. Being flexible is imperative and that can mean for our own expectations, it can mean for our relationship expectations and for our children.

00:56:08 Michelle Cruz

So knowing that sometimes we're not going to make it on time to the event, that's OK.

00:56:13 Michelle Cruz

Knowing that sometimes we're going.

00:56:14 Michelle Cruz

To be an hour early.

00:56:15 Michelle Cruz

Being flexible, you know, maybe we're not going to keep them matching outfits like I knew for myself that it would be hard to keep matching outfits, so I just said matching names, everybody got an E.

00:56:23 Michelle Cruz

Name you know.

00:56:25 Speaker 3

So we matching.

00:56:26 Michelle Cruz

Name but it works. So just knowing what I need to do is the flexibility and then of course that supports everything else like boundaries and.

00:56:33 Michelle Cruz

Relationship. If you're flexible, you can make it work, and knowing that it's OK sometimes to unable to pick and choose and flexibility gives us that ability to do so.

00:56:42 Dr Cristina Cavezza

That's wonderful piece of advice. Thank you so much, Michelle. It's been such a pleasure connecting with you today and wishing you all the best with your work. You're doing such amazing work. Thank you for all the work that you do.

00:56:54 Michelle Cruz

You're welcome. It's been the best talking with you.

00:56:56 Michelle Cruz

As well.

00:57:01 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Thanks for listening to today's episode. If you like what you've heard and please follow and leave a review so that other expectant and current parents of multiples like yourself can find this podcast and the valuable information it contains.

00:57:14 Dr Cristina Cavezza

I'd be so very grateful if you left a review and shared this with anyone you think could benefit from listening. If you have a particular topic you'd like me to cover on this podcast, feel free to reach out to me via my website. fiercekindmama.com New episodes are released every second Wednesday, so we'll see you back here real soon.

00:57:34 Dr Cristina Cavezza

Any advice and information on this podcast is general only and has been prepared without taking into account your particular circumstances and needs. For tailored, individualized advice, please consult with a qualified professional.